O/T Tommy Robinson Speaks About Manchester Terror Attack

[Ellis_D]

Me neither, and for once, i agree 100% with Kempo's post above.

I don't purport to know the short term answers to attacks like this, i'm sure that if the security services had any inkling then they'd have picked this bloke up and stopped it. The point is that we cannot as a decent, civilised society bow down to these murdering b astards, but by the same token we cannot punish a whole community either, i'm absolutely adamant that the muslim community could, and should, do much more, but ostracising them does no good for anyone.

Nor do any of the 'solutions' that people come up with every terror attack. Have a candlelit vigil, a minute's silence, the governments speak of strong measures, people discuss it on the internet, nothing happens, and then the next attack arrives.

I haven't said ostracise an entire community. I have said deport or indefinitely jail everyone on the terror suspects list.

And to answer one or two points further up, it's quite simple. Deport any foreigners who are suspected of being involved with terrorism, jail any British ones. It's not rocket science. If they are suspected, there is a sound reason for being suspected, and it's not just because they are Muslim. Otherwise we wouldn't have 4,000 on the list we would have over 3 million on the list. So the people who are saying this would attack/ostracise/demonise an entire community or religion, stop talking absolute sh!te.

[millmoormagic]

Nor do any of the 'solutions' that people come up with every terror attack. Have a candlelit vigil, a minute's silence, the governments speak of strong measures, people discuss it on the internet, nothing happens, and then the next attack arrives.

I haven't said ostracise an entire community. I have said deport or indefinitely jail everyone on the terror suspects list.

And to answer one or two points further up, it's quite simple. Deport any foreigners who are suspected of being involved with terrorism, jail any British ones. It's not rocket science. If they are suspected, there is a sound reason for being suspected, and it's not just because they are Muslim. Otherwise we wouldn't have 4,000 on the list we would have over 3 million on the list. So the people who are saying this would attack/ostracise/demonise an entire community or religion, stop talking absolute sh!te.

Let's be straight here, the candlelit vigils, the minute's silences etc etc are not, and never will be solutions, they're a much needed boost for everyone in the country to feel at one with those directly affected, it's things like these that bind us as a country, and even if they just give a tiny bit of comfort to those directly affected then they're a beautiful thing.

To answer the points on this rocket science you're on about, you talk of 'potential' 4000 suspects and say that if we killed all those 4000 suspects then we'd stop future attacks....yes, you're probably right, that would probably stop the short term attacks, but would create another 4fold increase in folk willing to engage in this sheite, killing even more in the future, no ellis, your way is the wrong way, the time we start killing innocents (because without proof, thats what they are) then we're just as bad as they are.

[Turfmoorspirit]

I agree with this guy. A realist..https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rket4xvu_ac

[Ellis_D]

Let's be straight here, the candlelit vigils, the minute's silences etc etc are not, and never will be solutions, they're a much needed boost for everyone in the country to feel at one with those directly affected, it's things like these that bind us as a country, and even if they just give a tiny bit of comfort to those directly affected then they're a beautiful thing.

To answer the points on this rocket science you're on about, you talk of 'potential' 4000 suspects and say that if we killed all those 4000 suspects then we'd stop future attacks....yes, you're probably right, that would probably stop the short term attacks, but would create another 4fold increase in folk willing to engage in this sheite, killing even more in the future, no ellis, your way is the wrong way, the time we start killing innocents (because without proof, thats what they are) then we're just as bad as they are.

They have some evidence for that, but I haven't actually said that is what we should do. I have said that is what I would do. As in, if I were in charge of the country (yes, thankfully I will never be in charge of the country, etc, etc).

What I have actually said is, we should deport the foreign ones suspected of it, and jail the British ones. You will now start your bleating that we can't just jail or deport innocent Muslims because that is what they are, and if we do we target a whole community, and all the other exaggerations we hear every time we get a new attack.

And I will simply state, once again. IF we were targeting EVERY Muslim, there would be over three million people on that terror suspects list. But there aren't, there are four thousand. That is 0.13% recurring of Muslims in Britain. So it isn't targeting every Muslim, or loads of innocent people. There is a very good, valid reason all of these people are under suspicion.

[millmoormagic]

They have some evidence for that, but I haven't actually said that is what we should do. I have said that is what I would do. As in, if I were in charge of the country (yes, thankfully I will never be in charge of the country, etc, etc).

What I have actually said is, we should deport the foreign ones suspected of it, and jail the British ones. You will now start your bleating that we can't just jail or deport innocent Muslims because that is what they are, and if we do we target a whole community, and all the other exaggerations we hear every time we get a new attack.

And I will simply state, once again. IF we were targeting EVERY Muslim, there would be over three million people on that terror suspects list. But there aren't, there are four thousand. That is 0.13% recurring of Muslims in Britain. So it isn't targeting every Muslim, or loads of innocent people. There is a very good, valid reason all of these people are under suspicion.

Squirming ellis, 'we' 'i' etc, you know exactly what you're posting and exactly the meaning of your posts, so stop the bull.

So, to the point, we should deport foreign suspects, and jail the British suspects, sounds great, don't you think that is what exactly what would happen given enough evidence? and that would get the overwhelming support of the whole country.

Doesn't suit your narrative though does it, fella.

[Ellis_D]

Squirming ellis, 'we' 'i' etc, you know exactly what you're posting and exactly the meaning of your posts, so stop the bull.

So, to the point, we should deport foreign suspects, and jail the British suspects, sounds great, don't you think that is what exactly what would happen given enough evidence? and that would get the overwhelming support of the whole country.

Doesn't suit your narrative though does it, fella.

Well, no, actually, millmoor, you can't try to twist this as you usually do, because it's there in black and white what I said:

"This scumbag was known as a potential terrorist. EVERY single person on this list should be rounded up, and either jailed indefinitely or deported, simple. B0llocks to their human rights. What about the human rights of all the people who died? What about the human rights of every innocent, decent man, woman and child in this country who deserves to live a free, safe life. I would actually string them up, never mind lock them up, but locking them up or deporting them will be a start."

It's clear to anyone that from that post - and my earlier and later posts - that I believe we as a country should be locking them up or deporting them, but that I said I would actually string them up. With the obvious connotation if I were in charge of the country.

And no, I don't believe that is what is already happening. These people aren't on this list because they look a bit foreign or they have grown a beard, I know that doesn't suit YOUR narrative, but that's the truth.

Just four thousand out of three million Muslims are being monitored as potential terrorists. It's quite a small percentage, and for that reason, I'd say they aren't just monitoring people willy nilly. However, because of the Human Rights Act, and the fact people like you would scream and shout about abuses of their human rights, we are powerless to act, until we have concrete evidence. Which usually comes in the form of a terror attack. And that is too late. And that is why people want preventative measures, even if that does mean some of those 4,000 people might be innocent. Although bearing in mind 50,000 Muslims in Britain alone downloaded the ISIS terrorist handbook explaining to them how to make bombs and kill and maim as many as possible, I would suggest that 4,000 being under suspicion is far too low a figure.

What I am suggesting, and if you'd like to put it to a referendum, like your little Brexit poll that the arrogant leftists were so sure they would win, I guarantee WELL over half the country would support deporting or indefinitely imprisoning all 4,000 people on this list until we can prove they were never going to be involved in Islamic terrorism or recruiting people to be involved in Islamic extremism, or until the Islamic terrorism across the world largely comes to a halt, whichever comes first.

Millmoor, you are clearly in the naive belief that you are right, but you thought the same about Brexit and Trump. The majority of people on here believe it's actions not words that are needed, the majority side with me, just as the majority of the country would.

I know that doesn't suit your narrative, I know it hurts to think you are in the minority with your views, but that's the truth of the matter.

[harpo88]

I think the closest thing Ellis to what you're proposing is Guantanamo Bay. I don't think we can say that's helped. But we can't really know. Or perhaps the crackdown in the Philippines now under Duterte - will have to see how that pans out.

The other thing with a policy decision is it's also about how things are perceived. The way people think about a policy can be far more important than the details of the policy itself, and that needs to be carefully considered, if there is a possibility of doing more harm than good. Not saying that conclusively, but it might be why they haven't done what seems to be 'common sense'.

[millmoormagic]

Well, no, actually, millmoor, you can't try to twist this as you usually do, because it's there in black and white what I said:

"This scumbag was known as a potential terrorist. EVERY single person on this list should be rounded up, and either jailed indefinitely or deported, simple. B0llocks to their human rights. What about the human rights of all the people who died? What about the human rights of every innocent, decent man, woman and child in this country who deserves to live a free, safe life. I would actually string them up, never mind lock them up, but locking them up or deporting them will be a start."

It's clear to anyone that from that post - and my earlier and later posts - that I believe we as a country should be locking them up or deporting them, but that I said I would actually string them up. With the obvious connotation if I were in charge of the country.

And no, I don't believe that is what is already happening. These people aren't on this list because they look a bit foreign or they have grown a beard, I know that doesn't suit YOUR narrative, but that's the truth.

Just four thousand out of three million Muslims are being monitored as potential terrorists. It's quite a small percentage, and for that reason, I'd say they aren't just monitoring people willy nilly. However, because of the Human Rights Act, and the fact people like you would scream and shout about abuses of their human rights, we are powerless to act, until we have concrete evidence. Which usually comes in the form of a terror attack. And that is too late. And that is why people want preventative measures, even if that does mean some of those 4,000 people might be innocent. Although bearing in mind 50,000 Muslims in Britain alone downloaded the ISIS terrorist handbook explaining to them how to make bombs and kill and maim as many as possible, I would suggest that 4,000 being under suspicion is far too low a figure.

What I am suggesting, and if you'd like to put it to a referendum, like your little Brexit poll that the arrogant leftists were so sure they would win, I guarantee WELL over half the country would support deporting or indefinitely imprisoning all 4,000 people on this list until we can prove they were never going to be involved in Islamic terrorism or recruiting people to be involved in Islamic extremism, or until the Islamic terrorism across the world largely comes to a halt, whichever comes first.

Millmoor, you are clearly in the naive belief that you are right, but you thought the same about Brexit and Trump. The majority of people on here believe it's actions not words that are needed, the majority side with me, just as the majority of the country would.

I know that doesn't suit your narrative, I know it hurts to think you are in the minority with your views, but that's the truth of the matter.

I don't need to twist anything fella, you're doing just fine on yourself...

"*******s to the human rights" = going against everything this country has stood up and fought for, for thousands of people who've lost their lives fighting for those human rights against all comers, hitler included, i wonder how much'concrete evidence' Adolph needed...

As for those on the list, those you'd willingly kill by the way, yep, they're on the list for a reason, and the fact they're on a list suggests that our security forces have some kind of control on the matter, they've done a great job upto yet, aided no doubt by members of the muslim community, but you can ignore that can't you...

Your arguments are straight out of the playground, you really do need to take a broader outlook because the only naive bloke here is you and your cohorts...

[Ellis_D]

I don't need to twist anything fella, you're doing just fine on yourself...

"*******s to the human rights" = going against everything this country has stood up and fought for, for thousands of people who've lost their lives fighting for those human rights against all comers, hitler included, i wonder how much'concrete evidence' Adolph needed...

As for those on the list, those you'd willingly kill by the way, yep, they're on the list for a reason, and the fact they're on a list suggests that our security forces have some kind of control on the matter, they've done a great job upto yet, aided no doubt by members of the muslim community, but you can ignore that can't you...

Your arguments are straight out of the playground, you really do need to take a broader outlook because the only naive bloke here is you and your cohorts...

If we had a public vote on this, should we, A. Deport any foreigners on the terror suspects list and imprison any British ones, thereby greatly reducing the chances of further terror attacks here or B. Continue to monitor them - our security forces do a great job and have stopped many terror attacks, but of course some slip through, just like the recent ones in London and Manchester.

I guarantee at least 80-90% of British people would vote for A. You keep deluding yourself otherwise but it's quite clear what the public opinion is, people are sick of it and want action.

[Ellis_D]

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