O/T Tommy Robinson Speaks About Manchester Terror Attack

[Ellis_D]

Thanks Mr Ellis_D - You're of course right! My wife put me right on this last night!

However, some of BF's tactics are pertinent here.

AS I said and must keep repeating so as to assure you I am looking at the situation as impartially as possible, Golding made some very good points in an assured calm manner when talking to students at Oxford (on You Tube).

I would of course applaud him for taking the time out to raise money for a dying child with a sponsored walk. I would of course defend his right to walk wherever he wants, when he wants when doing so in a peaceful and to take part in peaceful protests if they are agreed and are agreed with authorities to take place in a peaceful manner.

His sponsored walk though really worries me and I'd be grateful if you, as someone that seems to know about the incident:

1. If his motive was to walk to raise money for a dying girl why did he choose to choose a route that deliberately went past a mosque and a community that will be aware of his past and therefore likely to react in a way that might cause a breach of the peace. Why not walk around Epping Forest? We have some lovely views out there.

2. Reports on Channel 4 and the Daily Mail both reported that the Met offered Robinson two alternative routes. Yes, they might be fibbing but if Robinson had announced his intentions (how did he publicise it so that others knew about it?), then it would be a likely response from the Police and I would expect that to happen. Why do you suppose that they wouldn't have done that? On the evidence presented, I would have thought it more likely that Robinson turned up intending to take the route via the Mosque anyway - he seemed really determined to go via that route? Why??

3) As someone who is willing to listen to Robinson's arguments, and have done, and take some of his points, doesn't it worry you, as someone who is promoting these arguments (usually quite eloquently I must say) that a person like me is completely repelled by the idea that Robinson seems to have used the situation of a dying girl to promote his own political agenda? It turns me completely off the bloke.

Yes, anyone is welcome to go anywhere. Robinson could get out of bed this morning and walk through this route, as I have many times as a local, and no one would bat an eyelid (however, his profile might cause a few locals to react, that would be inexcusable and if I was him I think it might not be a good idea - but I've always walked through there without the slightest hint of trouble). The difference is if you announce that you will be walking down there at X o clock in what I can only put down as questionable motives. It's effectively the same as BF isn't it? Deliberate provocation. The same would be said if the AFL or even a group of Islmists were to announce a charity walk right past Robinson's house. They sort of have a right to do it but it would most likely cause a breach of the peace, and the police would most likely offer alternative routes. If not, the bloomin should do!

But, the most important thing of all in this is that such deliberate, apparently quite cynical actions stir up the divisions between us, and is exactly the kind of action that ISIS want. Surely you accept that the end result of deliberate hostility is to further push impressionable Muslims further towards an extremist cause. The ISIS organisation make no secret of that this is their strategy and all research points to the fact that this is the worst thing we can do? Surely you can see that?

I think Robinson should be heard and maybe he himself might have rethought that this kind of action is counter productive against his cause? He should try and get his views across in a non provocative means and join the cause in trying to both integrate Muslim communities into the British way of life whilst promoting accountability and responsibility from the small sections of the communities that promote extremist views.

First of all, I really MUST point out, that it was Tommy Robinson who spoke at Oxford NOT Paul Golding.

Secondly, you are asking me questions, some of which I have know way of actually knowing the answer to. I can't see inside his mind, nor have I asked him about it. I do accept though, that you are being open minded and fair, so I will attempt to answer the questions in an honest way as possible.

1. I touched on this before. I have seen him speak out before that there should not be any no-go areas for ANYONE in our country and that everyone should be able to walk peacefully down any street. You and I both agree on that. So was he trying to prove that that is not the case? That's what I think. Of course, he could have been just trying to stir people up in that area. But if all he was doing, along with one other person, was a peaceful charity walk, he should have been able to do it anywhere without the fear of attack. Let's not try to twist this into anything else - any person in Britain should be allowed to walk down any street and not be attacked. The person innocently walking down a street can NEVER be the one in the wrong, only the people doing the assaulting.

Where would it end otherwise? If Bill Smith says he doesn't like Muslims, is he allowed to punch them if one walks through his white only area? Would that be okay?

2. As far as I recall, Tommy announced his intention to do a charity walk on Facebook/Twitter for this little girl. I can't pretend to know the full ins and outs of why it was decided which route, etc, because I can't remember reading it. Although, two possible reasons - though there could be completely different ones - are 1. Him making the political point he should be allowed to walk anywhere in his own country, and 2. That he wanted to inflame some radical Muslim to attack him. Again, probably to make a political point...... See, I am always honest.......

3. Yes, I completely agree. All I can say in response to that is, there are plenty of celebrities and politicians who use things like this to push their own agenda. Jeremy Corbyn has done it with the Manchester bombing. So many celebs do things for charity and make sure it reaches the public eye so they make sure they look like a good guy. I'm not saying any of it is right, and I'm not saying that if Tommy did it for that reason it is okay of him either. Cold he have tried to raise money for the little girl without making a political point at the same time? Almost certainly.

As for the rest of what you said, it's possible, even probable that Tommy understands that now. He quit the EDL, he had a lot of meetings and talks with moderate Muslims so they can all understand each other better, and I don't think he would do that now.

I think, if he wants to make political points about being able to walk anywhere he wants, he can make that point. He knows the risks - in his case, he is risking his life. His choice. If Muslims want to come and attack him, as they often have, then that's their decision. I do agree that he should keep any charity work he wants to do separate from any political work though.

[Ellis_D]

Answer me the question. Hillsborough: would it have happened if thousands of Liverpool fans hadn't gone without tickets.

Please, please trust me when I say this: you are very, very wrong on this matter. South Yorkshire Police and The Scum newspaper told lots of lies.

[Ellis_D]

The only good fascist is one thats dead

LITERALLY ALL you have EVER done on here is slag people off, calling them racists, far right, bigots, etc. And defend terrorists and *****philes. I have NEVER seen you post ANYTHING about Rotherham United. But you don't want anyone to link the fact you support Celtic to the fact you also defend terrorists and *****philes and insult anyone who attacks these people. Despite Celtic football club also supporting terrorists and defending *****philes.

Now, not all Celtic fans supported the IRA, of course. But I have seen thirty odd thousand of them singing songs in support of them. I guess you will try and play the old minority card, but that's a big minority. And Big Jock knew about children being abused by a coach at your club, and he decided to hide it under the carpet rather than inform the police.

Go back and support your terrorist supporting, *****phile protecting football club, because you certainly never come on here to show any kind of support for ours.

[Ellis_D]

Rolymiller is one, proved it in his statement above.

The problem is, I think Rolymiller has been that badly brainwashed that he doesn't even know. I don't think he purposely does the bidding of Muslim *****phile grooming gangs when he is so blasé about children being raped on a much bigger scale than anything this country has ever witnessed before. I just think he doesn't realise it.

He has two brothers on here - mikethemiller and brasstwohat, who are even worse than he is. I seriously worry about brasstwohat, such is his ridiculous apologist behaviour. He is also the biggest user BY FAR of whataboutism.

[millmoormagic]

Talking about playing politics with people's lives......

'Jeremy Corbyn will return to campaigning for the general election on Friday morning after the pause following the Manchester bombing. He plans to give a speech criticising police cuts and drawing a link between British foreign policy and terror attacks.

With less than a fortnight until polling day, the Labour leader will tell an audience in London that a government led by his party would provide more resources for law enforcement and the NHS to ensure people were “not protected and cared for on the cheap”.

The Guardian view on defending democracy: avoid the politics
Editorial: It was right to halt the election campaign. But May must be scrupulous not to let national tragedy play to her advantage
Read more
The longtime peace campaigner and former chair of the Stop the War coalition will also argue that it is the responsibility of government to ensure that “our foreign policy reduces rather than increases the threat to this country”.

Corbyn will say: “Many experts, including professionals in our intelligence and security services, have pointed to the connections between wars our government has supported or fought in other countries and terrorism here at home.

“That assessment in no way reduces the guilt of those who attack our children. Those terrorists will forever be reviled and held to account for their actions. But an informed understanding of the causes of terrorism is an essential part of an effective response that will protect the security of our people that fights rather than fuels terrorism.”

He will argue that the government should admit the “war on terror” had failed and rethink its approach.

Ben Wallace, a Conservative security minister, criticised Corbyn’s comments as “crass and appallingly timed” and defended the government’s record on security spending. “He needs to get his history book out,” Wallace told BBC Radio 4’s Today programme. “These people hate our values, not our foreign policy.”

Tim Farron, the Lib Dem leader, also criticised Corbyn’s intervention: “A few days ago, a young man built a bomb, walked into a pop concert and deliberately slaughtered children. Our children. Families are grieving. A community is in shock. Jeremy Corbyn has chosen to use that grotesque act to make a political point.”

Farron added: “I don’t agree with what he says, but I disagree even more that now is the time to say it. That’s not leadership, it’s putting politics before people at a time of tragedy.”

I guess you don't mind when Jezza uses something awful to make a political point though, do you?

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...-terror-threat

I really don't see what your problem is there, he has laid out exactly what will happen if he becomes prime minister, ie, more police, more resources for intelligence, reform of prisons to put a halt to radicalisation in them(your boy tommy will like that one), and by the way, he is absolutely correct that our foreign policy over the last 15 years or so, maybe longer has contributed to the rise of ISIS, agreed by intelligence experts etc etc.....even you agreed with him, he hasn't used them as a vote winner, he was pointing out facts, the unpalatable truths that many of you don't want to hear....

[celticmiller]

Oooh. Go on. Admit it. Who's got Elllis's mad up? He'll want burping next.

[celticmiller]

Oh yea. And Stephen Yaxley Lennon is a fascist wannabe. Plain and simple.

[gwru]

Please, please trust me when I say this: you are very, very wrong on this matter. South Yorkshire Police and The Scum newspaper told lots of lies.

So everybody on here is saying it had nothing to do with thousands of Liverpool fans turning up without tickets. It's all the SY police & a newspapers fault. I always make my own mind up. Mistakes were made but after storming the gates were there were more than likely legitimate fans there with tickets they get in the ground & don't have the decency to know they are crushing/killing there own fans. I know what's right & that isn't. Somebody tell me different cause if you can I've lived all my life wrong.

[rolymiller]

OK great fire you say I am an apologist for Muslim grooming gangs. Surel6 you then must be an apologist for white grooming gangs. Let's put a scenario to you. Let's say that all of the Muslim grooming gangs problem gets sorted. Are you saying that we don't then need to concetnourselves with white child rape. You have never acknowledged white child rape so I presume you think that's ok. Surely child rape is wrong whoever does it. I am sorry that I have to spell this out to you.

[a123]

So everybody on here is saying it had nothing to do with thousands of Liverpool fans turning up without tickets. It's all the SY police & a newspapers fault. I always make my own mind up. Mistakes were made but after storming the gates were there were more than likely legitimate fans there with tickets they get in the ground & don't have the decency to know they are crushing/killing there own fans. I know what's right & that isn't. Somebody tell me different cause if you can I've lived all my life wrong.

They didn't storm the gates, it was the authorities refusal to move the kick off time that led to the crush developing outside the stadium.

Re-telling the same old lies give them no more credence.