O/T Tommy Robinson Speaks About Manchester Terror Attack

[AltyPie]

This article is well worth a read.

Mehdi Hasan - Reactions to Manchester Bombing Show How Anti-Muslim Bigots Are “Useful Idiots” for ISIS (May 24 2017)

“IF YOU WANT to defeat ISIS, listen to former ISIS hostage Nicolas Henin. The group is “heartened by every sign of overreaction, of division, of fear, of racism, of xenophobia … [and] drawn to any examples of ugliness on social media,” the French journalist wrote in November 2015 in the wake of the Paris attacks. “Central to their world view is the belief that communities cannot live together with Muslims, and every day their antennae will be tuned towards finding supporting evidence.”

Get that? Islamophobia plays right into the hands of ISIS. Wittingly or unwittingly, anti-Muslim bigots have become recruiting sergeants for a group they profess to hate and claim to want to destroy. The Islamophobes, to borrow a line from Lenin, are ISIS’s useful idiots.

This ISIS grand plan has always required the (perhaps unwitting) support of the group’s useful idiots in the West, the Islamophobes, whose harsh rhetoric and actions help drive marginalized and alienated Muslims into the wide open arms of the jihadists.

The purveyors of anti-Muslim hatred are, of course, unwilling to admit to the central role that they play in the radicalization process. “The terrorists couldn’t give a stuff what I tweet or write or say,” insisted Hopkins in her MailOnline column the day after the Manchester bombing. “They couldn’t care less if we stand divided or pretend to be united.”If only that were true. Forget Dabiq. Consider instead what Arie Kruglanski, a professor of psychology at the University of Maryland who studies radicalization, said after the Paris attacks in November 2015. A growing climate of Islamophobia is what ISIS is “aiming for — to provoke communities to commit actions against Muslims,” he told the Washington Post. “Then ISIS will be able to say, ‘I told you so. These are your enemies, and the enemies of Islam.’”

Another psychology professor who studies Muslim extremists, Jocelyn Bélanger of the University of Quebec in Montreal, agrees. “When people feel a loss of significance — when they are humiliated — that propels them to join a radical group,” he told the Post.
The Islamophobes see themselves as politically incorrect truth-tellers; as bold and blunt opponents of the radicals and the extremists. The reality is that they are the accomplices, the unpaid agents, of those very same radicals and extremists. Every terrorist needs a Katie Hopkins. It is one of the great ironies of our time — those who shout loudest about the threat posed by ISIS are often the biggest propagandists for ISIS.

As my colleague Murtaza Hussain has observed, it is “perverse and counterproductive to lump [the West’s Muslims] together with ISIS and blame them for the group’s actions.” To do so is to “grant the Islamic State a propaganda coup, implicitly endorsing the group’s narrative of Muslims and Westerners collectively at war with one another.”

The fact of the matter is that ISIS wants to sow division and discord in Western societies, and its useful idiots in the West are only too happy to help it do so. “Cohesion, tolerance — it is not what [ISIS members] want to see,” pointed out former hostage Henin back in 2015. “What they fear,” he concluded, “is unity.”

This is not clear thinking and is in fact dangerous and part of the problem not the solution.
You are suggesting that people who say or tweet "nasty" or "Islamophobic" things about people who commit acts of terror in the name of Islam bring about further radicalisation of Muslims. These freshly radicalised muslims are then ready to commit suicide bombings, potentially against children, and it is the non-Muslim verbal dissenters that brought it on themselves.

If we have a section of UK society that is ready to commit acts of murder (eg, similar to the Charlie Hebdo example) because they are tweeted against, insulted by a cartoon or words, or offended how women in the west dress, act and enjoy themselves, then we have a huge problem in our society that NEEDS NAMING AND DISCUSSING. Not ignoring as you suggest and if you persist with this ridiculous PC, denialist narrative, you will make the deaths of more innocents likely.

For the above reasons, a position such as you lay out above is now morally indefensible and it is the same path the politicians are rigidly fixed to.

Lee Rigby, PC Keith Palmer, Manchester, numerous plots foiled. How many terror successes and failures do you want to see before you accept there is a deadly problem with a minority of our Islamic community. There is a small percentage within that community who want to bring about the end of our "western" way of life and replace it with a Caliphate. Do you beleive that a tweet or a facebook post will "push them over he edge" to becoming murderers? You are deluded if you do.

Around the world, it is Muslims who, by far, are the greatest number killed by Islamic Terror. If it helps to get it into your virtue signalling, denialist skull, then accept that NAMING and discussing the issue in an open and difficult way will lead to less Muslim deaths as one consequence.

I might be wrong, but I think it was Voltaire who said something like "if you want to solve a problem, you first have to name it."

Our politicians don't even want to name it, and that can only lead to more teddy bears and tea lights. I, for one have had a belly full of those.

Let me ask YOU a question. Are you ready to acknowledge and discuss openly and very frankly the role that the Koran and Hadith play in all of this?

[AltyPie]

IMO, the sight of soldiers on the streets of England as a response to this issue was a clear signal that the current "method" of dealing with this issue has utterly failed. The current "method" involves ignore, silence dissenters by labelling them with virtue signalling ad hominems, candles, tea lights and teddy bears. And oh, of course, politicians saying how we must all "stand together" while they praise the emergency services for doing such a good job of scraping the children's body parts off the MEN Arena foyer walls.

Soldiers on the streets is THE mother of all ambulances at the bottom of cliffs and we need CHANGE and ACTION NOW.
One thing I will agree with the PC brigade on is that we should not direct the lion's share of our anger at Islam. No, this should be directed at all the politicians who for years have pedalled mass immigration, multi-culturalism and "diversity" as the nirvana. They have failed and their policies have failed and a dead police officer, a dead soldier, and dead children are the result.

You are not powerless to bring about change. You can all try to make a change by first writing to your MP about any issues you feel strongly about. Some issues you may want to write to your MP about are:

Khalid Masood was radicalised in prison. Tommy Robinson has exposed all this time and again. If you think it’s reasonable to pass legislation designed to stop radicalisation in prisons, write to your MP and say so.

Salman Abedi had been to Libya, there’s evidence his father was involved in terror plots, and it’s also likely preaching at the local mosque (Didsbury) contributed to his radicalisation. If you think it’s reasonable to want what is preached in mosques monitored very closely now, including the right to be able to ban invited preachers from abroad then write to your MP and say so.

Michael Adebalajo was arrested by Kenyan authorities in 2010 en route to meet up with Al-Shabaab. British authorities then deported him back to the UK and released him no charges. If you think that people suspected of trying to go to terrorist training camps (or proven to have travelled to ISIS controlled areas) should be interned, write to your MP and say so.

King Abdullah's Saudi regime spends billions of pounds each year promoting Wahhabism, one of fundamentalist Islam's most extreme movements. Much of it funds children's education in British faith schools and mosques. Should we be worried? (Telegraph). If you are concerned about Saudi funded teaching of Wahhabism in our schools, write to your MP and say so.

I could go on, but there’s four things to go at above. The next thing you type out, make it a letter to your MP if you agree with me rather than a post on here. Tell politicians you want to see changes in the law to enable the above NOW.

If politicians do not face this issue head on, then our "western values" will continue to be undermined.
Such inaction may only serve to bring about civil violence and/or eventual civil war as people give in to despair and frustration.

There are only three ways to bring about change within a society. These are:
1. WORDS (debate, blogs like this, open discussion)
2. POLICY
3. VIOLENCE

"1" is being shut down by the politicians, MSM and police. "2" is non-existent ATM, both of which make "3" more likely.
Write to your MP, pressure them, make your concerns known. That way we might bring about some "2" and make "3" a bit less likely.

[AltyPie]

Third and final post today:

A 5th thing to write to your MP about (if you agree with me of course - if not, no problem) is that we should not be getting involved in any more insane and poorly planned military adventures in the middle east. We were told by Bush and Blair that the Iraq War was to "protect our way of life and freedom". What we got was 1,000's of innocent dead Iraqi's, 100's of dead soldiers, a vacuum filled by an ISIS controlled Caliphate and a place for men from the UK and Europe to travel to and come back from as freshly hardened Jihadi's. This war was based on a pack of lies (WMD, Saddam's relationship with AQ, his role in 911) As a demonstration of the utter contempt they hold us in, remember Rumsfeld's laughable Tora Bora cave diagrams as a justification for the Afghan debacle (google or youtube them).

George Galloway made the case for opposition against the Iraq War better than anyone could in his testimony before a senate committee in 2005 (youtube it).

You CAN make a difference. Many politicians are self serving slugs and if they see enough letters from enough voters demanding change and action, they will act because it will serve them to do so. Direct your anger at them if you want to try to make a difference and potentially save children's lives.

[Ellis_D]

This is not clear thinking and is in fact dangerous and part of the problem not the solution.
You are suggesting that people who say or tweet "nasty" or "Islamophobic" things about people who commit acts of terror in the name of Islam bring about further radicalisation of Muslims. These freshly radicalised muslims are then ready to commit suicide bombings, potentially against children, and it is the non-Muslim verbal dissenters that brought it on themselves.

If we have a section of UK society that is ready to commit acts of murder (eg, similar to the Charlie Hebdo example) because they are tweeted against, insulted by a cartoon or words, or offended how women in the west dress, act and enjoy themselves, then we have a huge problem in our society that NEEDS NAMING AND DISCUSSING. Not ignoring as you suggest and if you persist with this ridiculous PC, denialist narrative, you will make the deaths of more innocents likely.

For the above reasons, a position such as you lay out above is now morally indefensible and it is the same path the politicians are rigidly fixed to.

Lee Rigby, PC Keith Palmer, Manchester, numerous plots foiled. How many terror successes and failures do you want to see before you accept there is a deadly problem with a minority of our Islamic community. There is a small percentage within that community who want to bring about the end of our "western" way of life and replace it with a Caliphate. Do you beleive that a tweet or a facebook post will "push them over he edge" to becoming murderers? You are deluded if you do.

Around the world, it is Muslims who, by far, are the greatest number killed by Islamic Terror. If it helps to get it into your virtue signalling, denialist skull, then accept that NAMING and discussing the issue in an open and difficult way will lead to less Muslim deaths as one consequence.

I might be wrong, but I think it was Voltaire who said something like "if you want to solve a problem, you first have to name it."

Our politicians don't even want to name it, and that can only lead to more teddy bears and tea lights. I, for one have had a belly full of those.

Let me ask YOU a question. Are you ready to acknowledge and discuss openly and very frankly the role that the Koran and Hadith play in all of this?

Excellent post, AltyPie. Too many people, and I am constantly in debates with them, refuse to acknowledge or refuse to educate themselves, that the Qur'an, Muhammad and the Hadith are the sole reasons we have so much Islamic terrorism across the world. Just doing some research, some reading, will make them understand, but so many of them refuse and instead follow the lies that the media, the government and moderate Muslims spout, that Islam is the religion of peace and that the terrorists aren't real Muslims.