OT: Grenfell Tower fire

[lbj]

This has been mentioned this morning apparently.....

Corporate Manslaughter and Corporate Homicide Act

This has "Austerity" written all over it....cuts - cuts - cuts.... and borrowing gets worse !

Mismanagement of the economy with cuts to ***** services.....The look on that senior firefighters face when she said :

"This is an unprecedented fire"

In 2017 and within the countries capital......I was going to say - this is going to get ugly......but IT MUST GET UGLY !

[millmoormagic]

You've obviously never been there.

No, not recently, just going on the local's opinions, and the report into the recladding, which actually stated that the cladding would make it more aestheticly pleasing from certain areas surrounding the tower...

[lbj]

This investigation should go down to the very basics of our current working conditions / contracts and how "profits" are made.

Typically....contracts are won on price / quality.

Once the contract is won....the price is agreed and the specifications written into the contract.

The successful contractor has then to maximise profits....and how do they do that.

We have already heard that sub-contractors don't actually make the
panels / insulation used within the tower refurbishment.

Sub-contractors hire sub-contractors all the way down to the individuals fitting the panels.

I wonder who these actually were ?
( Cheapest possible workers perhaps )

I wonder where these panels actually came from ( and who checked the specifications )

An early thesis - borne out with the flash flames travelling up between floors - was that fire breaks were NOT fitted vertically or even horizontally - to reduce the spread of fire.

Those flames rushing up the side of the building make my blood boil........ ....something was dreadfully wrong !

Those poor people !
RIP

And the fire sevices that have to clean this mess up.....no cover ups please - Hillsborough took 25 years and 96 people died due to negligence then !

[KerrAvon]

Of course there can be a political angle to incidents such as this. Of course there can be potential criminal charges. There will inevitably be lessons to learn.

My point was and is that the recriminations and blame should wait until we know what happened and that to try to make political points before we even know the death toll is pretty low.

For example, it has also been reported that 250 fire fighters were involved in dealing with the incident. So perhaps those politicians and posters making points about cuts to the fire brigade can comment upon how many firefighters were actually needed and their basis for being able to do so?

[Grist_To_The_Mill]

The bodies were still smouldering when Corbyn got his jibe in about cuts.

[lbj]

A further point that is pertinent is that we have recently had advertising for jobs as part time cover firefighters to undermine pre-arranged firefighters strikes....that were organised to ensure public safety btw...

These part timers were to keep the problem going rather than seeking a prompt end to the dispute !

The dispute was about the retirement age of firefighters!

The lads and lasses going into tragedies like this need to be fit and strong and with all due respect to other over 60's I couldn't do it !

So after a career saving folk they should retire on a recognised pension before they become infirm or unsafe.

Others will know the roots of this dispute but it is a typical tory reduction of long term and recognised practices designed to save a few bob.....while giving tax breaks to the rich.

What a job those boys and girls have to do now.....they don't need this ......... .......government cutting fire stations and long term accepted conditions of service....

There's enough money - but the priorities are less Tax every time - cut - cut - cut...but still provide the same service....like cutting 22,000 Bobby's - that's bound to undermine UK security !

May....who's crying WOLF ?

[lbj]

"JC about cuts"

And he's right isn't he......things have to change in this country !

[Brin]

The bodies were still smouldering when Corbyn got his jibe in about cuts.

And you don't think May wouldn't have?

Politicians are all the same they don't care what the story is, they will use anything to score points.

[Grist_To_The_Mill]

Yes Brin to a point that's true but some are statesman like enough to know when to talk and when to stay quiet.

JC doesn't have that skill

No doubt there will be accusations, expensive multi court cases, lots of name calling like Hillsborough and Orgreave but no matter what the outcome there will be those that won't accept the findings.

[millmoormagic]

Of course there can be a political angle to incidents such as this. Of course there can be potential criminal charges. There will inevitably be lessons to learn.

My point was and is that the recriminations and blame should wait until we know what happened and that to try to make political points before we even know the death toll is pretty low.

For example, it has also been reported that 250 fire fighters were involved in dealing with the incident. So perhaps those politicians and posters making points about cuts to the fire brigade can comment upon how many firefighters were actually needed and their basis for being able to do so?

Quote from a firefighter, to a conservative party member, make your own mind up...

"Actions speak louder than words ,you and your party have treated us in the fire brigade with contempt .
My crew who got the shout at one am this morning and finally went off duty at five this afternoon will still have to go in duty at eight tonight .
This is because there's no extra resources to cover for them .
They will be like zombies, best of all most will be working part time over the next few days to make up a wage that you've cut every year for eight years now.
So when you're giving out your meaningless praise for our emergency services remember we hold you in total contempt."