OT. The futures Bright, the Futures Brexit!!!

[Trickytreesreds]

Sovereignty, nationalism, immigration, stressed public services etc all were higher up their decision tree I imagine.

That is the gist of it,

The economics may take a hit. But as I said earlier, Germany was ground into dust in 1945 and is now the 4th biggest economy in the world.
Why the cowards in all this, think that we need to be entrapped in a plot for a superstate, escapes me.

I'm all for free trade, but where did this plot for the USE, come from?

[ramAnag]

Well I think there was misleading propaganda put about by both factions, so that cannot really invalidate the decision one way or the other; also the "only 37%" argument can be ignored as still less voted pro remain, so that's 2 disputed.

Whether the referendum came about to unite Tories is sort of specious: it doesn't really matter why it was called - it was: and the view it came up with is to leave. I believe the advisory only status is legally correct but morally I cannot see how the government in power - whoever that may be - can ignore the decision. Certainly not if it wants to stay in power.

That just leaves the fact that it may be economically a poor decision. You are convinced, I tend to agree but dont see the end of the world quite as clearly as you. Others (perhaps deluded) think we will be OK. Point is that the great British public who made the decision probably did not make it on the basis of economics. Sovereignty, nationalism, immigration, stressed public services etc all were higher up their decision tree I imagine. If you think you don't understand economics, how do you think the long term unemployed pensioner or class DE type voter managed it? They didn't and indeed wouldn't understand it in any subsequent referendum.

There was ill informed decision making by the OUT group but who is to say the same was not true of the REMAIN group? Did those people who made a decision on economic grounds even consider the motivation and logic applied by those who made a more emotional decision?

It pains me to say it, but its not all about money - yes that really is me saying this. Those who voted OUT clearly did not consider those factors to be an important element in their decision making (or were too thick to understand it).

Don't dispute the bit about both sides, although the bus...and we all know what it said...was the most blatant example.
37% is still too small a proportion of supporters to justify a decision of this magnitude imo, particularly as those who will eventually be most affected weren't allowed to vote.
Being 'economically a poor decision' doesn't warrant a 'just'. It may not be 'all about money' now but ultimately I think it will. You have already spoken about losing the employment provided by the banking industry and the taxes that are paid as a result. You have said how important this revenue is to UK plc and such revenue is clearly ***** to pay for the public services we all depend on and much more besides. Where will that end?
I know I possibly understand more than some even though I am economically ignorant compared with others, but that was the point about the stupidity of having a referendum. People are simply not generally capable of weighing up a matter of such complexity, I agree.
Having gone down this ridiculous route though and listened to the interminable arguments ever since, I do believe the electorate is better prepared and equipped to reach a decision now than it was thirteen months ago.

[roger_ramjet]

Its certainly more likely to vote remain on another referendum if there was one. Mostly because temainers were too nonchalant by half and would get off their arses next time round.

Im not sure it would be better equipped though

[Trickytreesreds]

Don't dispute the bit about both sides, although the bus...and we all know what it said...was the most blatant example.
37% is still too small a proportion of supporters to justify a decision of this magnitude imo, particularly as those who will eventually be most affected weren't allowed to vote.
Being 'economically a poor decision' doesn't warrant a 'just'. It may not be 'all about money' now but ultimately I think it will. You have already spoken about losing the employment provided by the banking industry and the taxes that are paid as a result. You have said how important this revenue is to UK plc and such revenue is clearly ***** to pay for the public services we all depend on and much more besides. Where will that end?
I know I possibly understand more than some even though I am economically ignorant compared with others, but that was the point about the stupidity of having a referendum. People are simply not generally capable of weighing up a matter of such complexity, I agree.
Having gone down this ridiculous route though and listened to the interminable arguments ever since, I do believe the electorate is better prepared and equipped to reach a decision now than it was thirteen months ago.

Can I just ask one thing Ramanag?

We and in fact a few others have been rail roaded down an alley, because of a political aim.
Should we just throw in the towel, or fight back against the system to get things back on track?

Being British by birth, we normally fight against injustice, The EU has been born out of manipulation. I don't want it and neither does (though you scoff it 37% of the electorate) .
I have heard arguments of better to be in and campaign for reform. Yet Cameron tried that and got monkey spunk flung in his face. Why do folks cling to this corrupt institution?

[ramAnag]

Can I just ask one thing Ramanag?

We and in fact a few others have been rail roaded down an alley, because of a political aim.
Should we just throw in the towel, or fight back against the system to get things back on track?

Being British by birth, we normally fight against injustice, The EU has been born out of manipulation. I don't want it and neither does (though you scoff it 37% of the electorate) .
I have heard arguments of better to be in and campaign for reform. Yet Cameron tried that and got monkey spunk flung in his face. Why do folks cling to this corrupt institution?

Ask away Tricky...it's nothing personal...but I do feel exactly the same...should I just 'throw in the towel' because a minority of the electorate have voted to lead us down a road that many more knowledgeable than me have suggested will end in hardship?
You're arguing your case, I'm arguing mine...pity the UK didn't do the same thing...stay in and change things but don't expect to leave and keep the benefits...nothing (that I know of) works like that.

[swaledale]

Yes I'm probably a bit hard on Swale but hey ho, anyone who uses exclamation marks (especially doubles) as much as he does is fair game...and there's got to be a bit of fun poking and rise taking to lighten the bleak mood hasn't there? Now get back to that rear turret.

On the banking thing yes interesting anecdote but you didn't answer the more general question.

I wouldn't poke my head above the parapet if I couldn't take the flack and I have no issue with those who have different views and opinions, but Tricky's posts are so extreme and so full of utter hyperbole one sided and frankly offensive (to any civilised human) views that I have no problem calling him out for what he is.

As for the rest on here, I'd happily share a drink with mostand agree to disagree, and will give as good as i get in the debate.

[Trickytreesreds]

Ask away Tricky...it's nothing personal...but I do feel exactly the same...should I just 'throw in the towel' because a minority of the electorate have voted to lead us down a road that many more knowledgeable than me have suggested will end in hardship?
You're arguing your case, I'm arguing mine...pity the UK didn't do the same thing...stay in and change things but don't expect to leave and keep the benefits...nothing (that I know of) works like that.

hang on. minority of the electorate?
If the vote had been reversed, would you have the same stance?
The vote was a legitimate referendum. You may not like its outcome, but it what it is.
That s democracy

[Trickytreesreds]

I wouldn't poke my head above the parapet if I couldn't take the flack and I have no issue with those who have different views and opinions, but Tricky's posts are so extreme and so full of utter hyperbole one sided and frankly offensive (to any civilised human) views that I have no problem calling him out for what he is.

As for the rest on here, I'd happily share a drink with mostand agree to disagree, and will give as good as i get in the debate.

Oh shut up you tart. You really are the most yellow bellied bell end I have ever heard of.

If no one agrees with you, you go on the offensive,
You don't give and take, you provoke and label folks you don't even know. Quite frankly, you're a complete cock.

[Andy_Faber]

Okay...accept that...'We' was meant to mean 'the public/electorate' and I'm not speaking for Swale...but is there actually anything there that you'd dispute?

Who mentioned 'referendum after referendum'? We now generally accept the following...

I think 'we' is still less than 50% of those who'd vote

The Brexit referendum was brought about in an attempt to settle internal Tory party squabbles.

80% agree

It wasn't taken as seriously as it should have been

Totally disagree inasmuch as it was taken as seriously as previous national polls

and was hijacked by the right wing press.

Partly agree but I don't hear you moaning about left wing activists 'hijacking' social media at the last election. Efficient marketing is no crime, if it was Mrs Faber would be serving life

People were misled into voting a certain way.

See above

Only approximately 37% of the electorate voted in favour of 'Leave'.

Correct arithmetically but totally disagree with your logic that such numbers invalidates the outcome

The result was advisory and not binding

We'll see how 'advisory' it was when the final deal is announced, IMO the next election WILL be voted for on satisfaction with the Brexit deal

The consequences are likely to be financially damaging if not disastrous for the U.K.

No idea where you get that from unless it was the BBC's Kamal Ahmed, its waaaay too early to tell

[Andy_Faber]

I wouldn't poke my head above the parapet if I couldn't take the flack and I have no issue with those who have different views and opinions, but Tricky's posts are so extreme and so full of utter hyperbole one sided and frankly offensive (to any civilised human) views that I have no problem calling him out for what he is.

As for the rest on here, I'd happily share a drink with mostand agree to disagree, and will give as good as i get in the debate.

fair go, please proceed