when will rafas plan start to work

[ghostrider]

How can it be down to Rafa when Ashley holds the purse strings and lies about what he will allow to be spent to almost every manager we have had.

How about you tell me what Rafa should have been allowed to buy in the summer right after promotion, other than what he bought and sold.

You tell me which buys were forced on him instead of the buys he was stopped from getting.
Do this in an honest way using what you know to be the truth from some source.

Because the way I see it is, we were and are in no position to barter for top end quality and if you think we are then tell me the ones Rafa could have got and at what price and wages.

12 million on Murphy. Why?
Future?
A tight owner who holds all the purse strings and Rafa pays 12 million for the future rather than addressing the now?
He has all summer to bring in a striker and decides on a Spanish Stoke substitute?

I could go on but I think the gist is there.
So none of it is down to Rafa and it's Ashley's fault we have those players, right?

Rafa is exempt from criticism because he's a world class manager and we really should be thankful whilst always remembering to blame Ashley when things don't go right.

Are you implying that Rafa signed a contract after scrutinising everything and having full control of all affairs football wise and what not but got screwed by Ashley when he asked for players?
And he decided this was the club for him under Ashley regardless of being lied to, because he feels a loyalty to the club or fans or whatever?

You know what. Sometimes when the pitch gets scuffed or the team play cack or it rains on the pitch, it's not always because Ashley planned it that way or hoped it would happen, just as it isn't when bad buys and refusal to play a decent system isn't Ashley's fault, either.

Mike Ashley has been a clown and a liar and a naive dipstick and many other things but the running of the club outside of his pocket is down to trusted people, of which many have repaid it in sin but this time he's left it in trust of others, plus Rafa and co, with Rafa on a 5 million a year contract iirc.... and you think it's nothing to do with Rafa that we're getting dealt this absolute garbage?


Defend him all you want to and all others can do so; it's your prerogative and mine is to call him out and want him out if he continues to dish this cack up.
All the man has to do is start dishing up the first 20 minutes of the Bournemouth attitude and build from that, because he's building nothing with his other nonsense other than discontent and another trip to the championship, or as close to it.


Soon enough some team is going to stick 8 past his so called impenetrable well organised so called super defense and it wouldn't surprise me if those gits do it next game. This is how low this man has got me.

I want him out and rather now that later when we are too far in trouble..

[HughieG]

How about you tell me what Rafa should have been allowed to buy in the summer right after promotion, other than what he bought and sold.

You tell me which buys were forced on him instead of the buys he was stopped from getting.
Do this in an honest way using what you know to be the truth from some source.

Because the way I see it is, we were and are in no position to barter for top end quality and if you think we are then tell me the ones Rafa could have got and at what price and wages.

12 million on Murphy. Why?
Future?
A tight owner who holds all the purse strings and Rafa pays 12 million for the future rather than addressing the now?
He has all summer to bring in a striker and decides on a Spanish Stoke substitute?

I could go on but I think the gist is there.
So none of it is down to Rafa and it's Ashley's fault we have those players, right?

Rafa is exempt from criticism because he's a world class manager and we really should be thankful whilst always remembering to blame Ashley when things don't go right.

Are you implying that Rafa signed a contract after scrutinising everything and having full control of all affairs football wise and what not but got screwed by Ashley when he asked for players?
And he decided this was the club for him under Ashley regardless of being lied to, because he feels a loyalty to the club or fans or whatever?

You know what. Sometimes when the pitch gets scuffed or the team play cack or it rains on the pitch, it's not always because Ashley planned it that way or hoped it would happen, just as it isn't when bad buys and refusal to play a decent system isn't Ashley's fault, either.

Mike Ashley has been a clown and a liar and a naive dipstick and many other things but the running of the club outside of his pocket is down to trusted people, of which many have repaid it in sin but this time he's left it in trust of others, plus Rafa and co, with Rafa on a 5 million a year contract iirc.... and you think it's nothing to do with Rafa that we're getting dealt this absolute garbage?


Defend him all you want to and all others can do so; it's your prerogative and mine is to call him out and want him out if he continues to dish this cack up.
All the man has to do is start dishing up the first 20 minutes of the Bournemouth attitude and build from that, because he's building nothing with his other nonsense other than discontent and another trip to the championship, or as close to it.


Soon enough some team is going to stick 8 past his so called impenetrable well organised so called super defense and it wouldn't surprise me if those gits do it next game. This is how low this man has got me.

I want him out and rather now that later when we are too far in trouble..

You want Rafa out and who back in? Who would be better? Yeah, Pardew played great footy......... Joselu will start banging in 25 goals a season once we get Pardew back in, it's only Rafa's tactics fault that he isn't scoring right now. Look at all the other clubs he's been at, he's been unstoppable

[ghostrider]

You want Rafa out and who back in? Who would be better? Yeah, Pardew played great footy......... Joselu will start banging in 25 goals a season once we get Pardew back in, it's only Rafa's tactics fault that he isn't scoring right now. Look at all the other clubs he's been at, he's been unstoppable

First of all let's clear up a few things.

1. I don't want Pardew back. I said his teams played better football than Rafa gives us. It doesn't matter what people thought of him. It's the truth.

2. I'm not championing Joselu as any prolific goalscorer but not giving him too much to work from on a regular basis is not helping him or anyone.

3.Rafa's tactics are massively unbalanced in favour of caution, so yes he is solely to blame. It's his team.

[HughieG]

First of all let's clear up a few things.

1. I don't want Pardew back. I said his teams played better football than Rafa gives us. It doesn't matter what people thought of him. It's the truth.

2. I'm not championing Joselu as any prolific goalscorer but not giving him too much to work from on a regular basis is not helping him or anyone.

3.Rafa's tactics are massively unbalanced in favour of caution, so yes he is solely to blame. It's his team.

1. I don't give two tits that Pardew played 'better' football when we constantly ended in relegation battles and never-ending winless runs. If you want to be entertained by competing with the bottom 5, fine. But I'd rather be 11th in the league. Rafa's plan is working. It's the truth.

2. Joselu's work rate is good, and he does a lot of things right. He didn't score goals under Hughes and he's not scoring goals under Rafa. Before any of those, he wasn't scoring goals. That can't be the system. Torres and Gerrard scored sh!tloads of goals under Rafa, so it's certainly more than possible in his system. Maybe you're right that he doesn't get enough to work with. Maybe that's 'cause our team isn't good enough to supply him. That's because Rafa didn't invest properly. Is that his fault? Nope.

3. I agree with this point. And we're 11th. It's his team - he's triumphed so far.

[ghostrider]

1. I don't give two tits that Pardew played 'better' football when we constantly ended in relegation battles and never-ending winless runs. If you want to be entertained by competing with the bottom 5, fine. But I'd rather be 11th in the league. Rafa's plan is working. It's the truth.

The lowest we've been under Pardew ( not that I want him back, I'm just saying) is 12th in terms of end of season finishes.
He managed this with very little to spend and working with cheap imports.
He had us playing some decent football and although not entirely ideal, it was much better football than what we've been dished up since his departure.

2. Joselu's work rate is good, and he does a lot of things right. He didn't score goals under Hughes and he's not scoring goals under Rafa. Before any of those, he wasn't scoring goals. That can't be the system. Torres and Gerrard scored sh!tloads of goals under Rafa, so it's certainly more than possible in his system.

Torres and Gerard weren't playing in a negative team. It wasn't set out in any negative way. It was balanced.
They also had the quality for the fight, so he's not incapable of employing it and getting the best out of these players who have a lot more in their technical tank than is being allowed to be shown.
He's battering it out of them in favour of a slogger mentality.
It's making players look more like headless greyhounds and in some cases galloping Donkey's when most are way better than that.
Sometimes we see the slick passing and movement and a nice balance in small time frames, so we know it's there.

Maybe you're right that he doesn't get enough to work with. Maybe that's 'cause our team isn't good enough to supply him.

It is good enough. It's just not confident enough to effect it in many games, but when they are, it shows up like a beacon and looks impressive.
I think Rafa's tactics are taking the edge off some of the players mindset to putting the opposition to the sword.

That's because Rafa didn't invest properly. Is that his fault? Nope.

Yes I believe it's Rafa's fault....absolutely.
Take a look at all of his signings.
Ashley hasn't forced them on him. He's obviously in charge so it's all down to him.

3. I agree with this point. And we're 11th. It's his team - he's triumphed so far.

He's only triumphed into boring the hell out of most fans.
I understand fans not wanting to upset the applecart and wanting a bit of shhhhh, let's be patient and try and keep Rafa who is world class because we might not get another like him.

Borlicks I say. I don't want any manager who's like him if this is what he serves up.

Let's see what happens when we play Man Utd at old trafford, because I think the Bournemouth game has effected a slide that is going to takes one hell of a set of brakes to arrest and end up with us getting a massive tonking.
I sincerely hope I get proved wrong on this, I really really do and this is never like me to go on like this but this bloke has tipped me over the edge.

[Cannylad]

Some posters on here who seem to be after Rafa's blood all the time never say who they want to replace him with. F*ck me, it's so easy to harp on and on with criticism all the time without saying how to remedy the situation. C'mon now you f*ckers', stop pointing fingers and grow a pair, tell us who you want to replace him with !

[ghostrider]

Some posters on here who seem to be after Rafa's blood all the time never say who they want to replace him with. F*ck me, it's so easy to harp on and on with criticism all the time without saying how to remedy the situation. C'mon now you f*ckers', stop pointing fingers and grow a pair, tell us who you want to replace him with !

I'd take any manager that sets us up to take the game to the opposition at every opportunity that is plausible.
As for pointing the fingers. Rafa deserves to have the fingers pointed at him.
What's the matter, is he beyond criticism?
He needs a kick up the aris just to get him to stop being so petty with players and dire in his set up.

I think fans are scared to criticise him for fear of causing him to spit his dummy out.

[HughieG]

The lowest we've been under Pardew ( not that I want him back, I'm just saying) is 12th in terms of end of season finishes.

Wrong. We finished 16th under Pardew the season after having finished 5th. For some reason people, such as the pundits, forget about that season, and tend to go on about how he almost took us into the top 4, and how we should worship him for that and how we gave him way too much stick and haunted him out of this club.

Now I do think that Pardew got more hate than he deserved because he worked under restrained conditions, but he certainly wasn't a god-send like the "experts" would have you believe.

Anyway, I think some of the points you're making are decent Ghost, but overall we disagree strongly and it's mainly the lack of patience that worries me with fans like yourself I have to say.

[ghostrider]

Wrong. We finished 16th under Pardew the season after having finished 5th. For some reason people, such as the pundits, forget about that season, and tend to go on about how he almost took us into the top 4, and how we should worship him for that and how we gave him way too much stick and haunted him out of this club.

Now I do think that Pardew got more hate than he deserved because he worked under restrained conditions, but he certainly wasn't a god-send like the "experts" would have you believe.

Anyway, I think some of the points you're making are decent Ghost, but overall we disagree strongly and it's mainly the lack of patience that worries me with fans like yourself I have to say.

I'll tell you why I'm lacking patience, when normally I've been ultra patient in the past.
It's because I am starting to see some of the worst football I've seen for a long long time from players that are capable of offering much more. And that's down to the manager and coaches he instructs to set them up.

I also get bad vibes from Rafa and see him as a dummy spitting manager within the club, with players who maybe have questions for him. You know, stuff like " hey boss, I'm fit and working hard and biting at the bit, when do I get into team."
I think Rafa takes stuff like that as a personal dig rather than seeing a hungry player.
Ok I might have embellished that a little bit but I think you can see what I'm saying.

One manager I didn't like was McClaren. I accepted him because I hoped he would magically do something for us with the players he had. His smug smirks sealed his fate on top of his excuses for us not winning.

Rafa gives me the opposite feeling of dislike , because in Rafa I'm looking at him in a more cold sense. I don't get any real good vibes from him.
I feel like he's someone that's stood in his garden with his ball and telling all who wait outside to play, " you'll play how I want or I won't bring my ball out." Whilst the players are all thinking, " ahhh let's just get on with it, even though we hate playing like this."


I don't think it's just me that'll be losing patience. I honestly think that the players will start to revolt. I think you'll start to see the harmony become disharmony as it will show on that pitch.
No football player wants to be stifled or made to constantly play chicken chasing for most of a game. They want to show what they're capable off and Rafa is stifling that from just about all of them.


I don't see how fans can defend him on this. It's misery.
I'm just moaning on and on, I know that but all I can see from this point on is more misery and then everything will turn nasty because of it and he will be hounded out or he'll walk out when he realises he's lost the fans and his squad.

Over the top?
I hope I am, I really do, because I'd hate to say I told you so.
I'd much prefer getting to the end of the season after doing much better and people telling me that I'm a pratt for being so doubtful and impatient.
I just don't see it though.

Moan over.