when will rafas plan start to work

[ghostrider]

You want Rafa out and who back in? Who would be better? Yeah, Pardew played great footy......... Joselu will start banging in 25 goals a season once we get Pardew back in, it's only Rafa's tactics fault that he isn't scoring right now. Look at all the other clubs he's been at, he's been unstoppable

First of all let's clear up a few things.

1. I don't want Pardew back. I said his teams played better football than Rafa gives us. It doesn't matter what people thought of him. It's the truth.

2. I'm not championing Joselu as any prolific goalscorer but not giving him too much to work from on a regular basis is not helping him or anyone.

3.Rafa's tactics are massively unbalanced in favour of caution, so yes he is solely to blame. It's his team.

[HughieG]

First of all let's clear up a few things.

1. I don't want Pardew back. I said his teams played better football than Rafa gives us. It doesn't matter what people thought of him. It's the truth.

2. I'm not championing Joselu as any prolific goalscorer but not giving him too much to work from on a regular basis is not helping him or anyone.

3.Rafa's tactics are massively unbalanced in favour of caution, so yes he is solely to blame. It's his team.

1. I don't give two tits that Pardew played 'better' football when we constantly ended in relegation battles and never-ending winless runs. If you want to be entertained by competing with the bottom 5, fine. But I'd rather be 11th in the league. Rafa's plan is working. It's the truth.

2. Joselu's work rate is good, and he does a lot of things right. He didn't score goals under Hughes and he's not scoring goals under Rafa. Before any of those, he wasn't scoring goals. That can't be the system. Torres and Gerrard scored sh!tloads of goals under Rafa, so it's certainly more than possible in his system. Maybe you're right that he doesn't get enough to work with. Maybe that's 'cause our team isn't good enough to supply him. That's because Rafa didn't invest properly. Is that his fault? Nope.

3. I agree with this point. And we're 11th. It's his team - he's triumphed so far.

[ghostrider]

1. I don't give two tits that Pardew played 'better' football when we constantly ended in relegation battles and never-ending winless runs. If you want to be entertained by competing with the bottom 5, fine. But I'd rather be 11th in the league. Rafa's plan is working. It's the truth.

The lowest we've been under Pardew ( not that I want him back, I'm just saying) is 12th in terms of end of season finishes.
He managed this with very little to spend and working with cheap imports.
He had us playing some decent football and although not entirely ideal, it was much better football than what we've been dished up since his departure.

2. Joselu's work rate is good, and he does a lot of things right. He didn't score goals under Hughes and he's not scoring goals under Rafa. Before any of those, he wasn't scoring goals. That can't be the system. Torres and Gerrard scored sh!tloads of goals under Rafa, so it's certainly more than possible in his system.

Torres and Gerard weren't playing in a negative team. It wasn't set out in any negative way. It was balanced.
They also had the quality for the fight, so he's not incapable of employing it and getting the best out of these players who have a lot more in their technical tank than is being allowed to be shown.
He's battering it out of them in favour of a slogger mentality.
It's making players look more like headless greyhounds and in some cases galloping Donkey's when most are way better than that.
Sometimes we see the slick passing and movement and a nice balance in small time frames, so we know it's there.

Maybe you're right that he doesn't get enough to work with. Maybe that's 'cause our team isn't good enough to supply him.

It is good enough. It's just not confident enough to effect it in many games, but when they are, it shows up like a beacon and looks impressive.
I think Rafa's tactics are taking the edge off some of the players mindset to putting the opposition to the sword.

That's because Rafa didn't invest properly. Is that his fault? Nope.

Yes I believe it's Rafa's fault....absolutely.
Take a look at all of his signings.
Ashley hasn't forced them on him. He's obviously in charge so it's all down to him.

3. I agree with this point. And we're 11th. It's his team - he's triumphed so far.

He's only triumphed into boring the hell out of most fans.
I understand fans not wanting to upset the applecart and wanting a bit of shhhhh, let's be patient and try and keep Rafa who is world class because we might not get another like him.

Borlicks I say. I don't want any manager who's like him if this is what he serves up.

Let's see what happens when we play Man Utd at old trafford, because I think the Bournemouth game has effected a slide that is going to takes one hell of a set of brakes to arrest and end up with us getting a massive tonking.
I sincerely hope I get proved wrong on this, I really really do and this is never like me to go on like this but this bloke has tipped me over the edge.

[Cannylad]

Some posters on here who seem to be after Rafa's blood all the time never say who they want to replace him with. F*ck me, it's so easy to harp on and on with criticism all the time without saying how to remedy the situation. C'mon now you f*ckers', stop pointing fingers and grow a pair, tell us who you want to replace him with !

[ghostrider]

Some posters on here who seem to be after Rafa's blood all the time never say who they want to replace him with. F*ck me, it's so easy to harp on and on with criticism all the time without saying how to remedy the situation. C'mon now you f*ckers', stop pointing fingers and grow a pair, tell us who you want to replace him with !

I'd take any manager that sets us up to take the game to the opposition at every opportunity that is plausible.
As for pointing the fingers. Rafa deserves to have the fingers pointed at him.
What's the matter, is he beyond criticism?
He needs a kick up the aris just to get him to stop being so petty with players and dire in his set up.

I think fans are scared to criticise him for fear of causing him to spit his dummy out.

[Jammy89]

I'd take any manager that sets us up to take the game to the opposition at every opportunity that is plausible.
As for pointing the fingers. Rafa deserves to have the fingers pointed at him.
What's the matter, is he beyond criticism?
He needs a kick up the aris just to get him to stop being so petty with players and dire in his set up.

I think fans are scared to criticise him for fear of causing him to spit his dummy out.

Hi Pboro . . . . Oh wait.

So you have no names then? Just the Rafa is wrong and must go.

He's not beyond criticism and has been criticised by several posters, it's just they acknowledge the positive aspects of what he's doing as well, also acknowledge that his hands were tied in summer.

[ghostrider]

Hi Pboro . . . . Oh wait.

So you have no names then? Just the Rafa is wrong and must go.

He's not beyond criticism and has been criticised by several posters, it's just they acknowledge the positive aspects of what he's doing as well, also acknowledge that his hands were tied in summer.

His hands weren't tied. He couldn't get his targets over the line and settled for other avenues.
I also acknowledged the positive aspects of his tenure right from him taking us down all through the championship and for a decent portion of the lead up to this season, plus half way through the games as of now, before I started to get a bit down beaten.

I can easily be swayed back towards Rafa if he starts to do what he did against Bournemouth when up against teams that beg for us to have a go, plus for him to change it up when necessary in the right way, not like he did against Bournemouth in the second half.

You see, I can easily be swayed by him having the ability to give us some football to watch and a team mindset to not only stop the opposition but to ask questions of it at every available opportunity.

He's not doing that and I'm peed off at it.
We had a great chance to put some real daylight between us and the bottom 3 and we've blew it with a handful of games that begged for points gains.

I'm not buying into his held back stance, because I'm not expecting him to do anything other than ensure we beat relegation but by doing it with a team that gives us a large portion of decent football and we aren't getting it.

If this was most other managers doing this the crowd would be up in arms...especially when you think Rafa has been here nearly two seasons. It's not like he's just came in to effect change.

[Cannylad]

I'd take any manager that sets us up to take the game to the opposition at every opportunity that is plausible.
As for pointing the fingers. Rafa deserves to have the fingers pointed at him.
What's the matter, is he beyond criticism?
He needs a kick up the aris just to get him to stop being so petty with players and dire in his set up.

I think fans are scared to criticise him for fear of causing him to spit his dummy out.

Still waiting to hear who you'd replace him with at the present time Ghostboro ??
I hear Carver, Pardew and 'Arry are all available, maybe Moyse when he finishes his part time job at WH

[ghostrider]

Still waiting to hear who you'd replace him with at the present time Ghostboro ??
I hear Carver, Pardew and 'Arry are all available, maybe Moyse when he finishes his part time job at WH

I'd take Koeman in a heart beat.

[HughieG]

The lowest we've been under Pardew ( not that I want him back, I'm just saying) is 12th in terms of end of season finishes.

Wrong. We finished 16th under Pardew the season after having finished 5th. For some reason people, such as the pundits, forget about that season, and tend to go on about how he almost took us into the top 4, and how we should worship him for that and how we gave him way too much stick and haunted him out of this club.

Now I do think that Pardew got more hate than he deserved because he worked under restrained conditions, but he certainly wasn't a god-send like the "experts" would have you believe.

Anyway, I think some of the points you're making are decent Ghost, but overall we disagree strongly and it's mainly the lack of patience that worries me with fans like yourself I have to say.