Trump

[sinkov]

Sinkov, reading your last post it is obvious that YOU do not recognise the state of Palestine. ("non existent state")

Therefore, following the logic, Israel owns all the land in the area and so can choose Jerusalem as it's capital if it so wishes? Is this a fair reflection of your beliefs?

If so, we are so far apart on our thinking that we could argue forever. (This could be a record breaking thread!)

I firmly believe that the only hope for a lasting peace in the region is the two state solution. Alas, after today it is beginning to look like a forlorn hope.

Prepare for war - and an expansion of US/Israeli influence.

Whether I recognise Palestine is irrelevant 59/60, I don't have any particular beliefs, except in the right of Israel to defend itself from terrorists firing rockets indiscriminately into their country.

[oldcolner]

Whether I recognise Palestine is irrelevant 59/60, I don't have any particular beliefs, except in the right of Israel to defend itself from terrorists firing rockets indiscriminately into their country.

The issue though is what is “their” country. Jerusalem wasn’t theirs at all.

[sinkov]

To sort out the Israeli/Palestinian conflict needs men of intellect and strong political will. Sadly there are none of those knocking about at present.

You could be wrong there BT, there is a glimmer of hope, at the risk of sending you off on another leftie rant, things are moving in this area, driven by that new chap running Saudi Arabia. Watch this space.

[sinkov]

The issue though is what is “their” country. Jerusalem wasn’t theirs at all.

Therein lies the problem OC, a refusal to accept the reality of the situation, Israel exists, it isn't going to go away. The only way to solve any problem is to deal with reality, stroking one's chin and pondering issues won't get you anywhere.

[1959_60]

That's fine Sinkov, as long as you also accept that Palestine exists.

If you don't accept this then there will always be conflict and tension in the area. And bigger powers will exploit this by proxy.

[The Bedlington Terrier]

There are lots of factors in this debate, none of which inspires me to believe that Israel have the right to take full and complete "ownership" of Jerusalem.

The very fact that the Israelis have to use military force to evict Palestinians from their centuries old homes sort of confirms my worse fears...

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/israeli-se...131821261.html

[The Bedlington Terrier]

You could be wrong there BT, there is a glimmer of hope, at the risk of sending you off on another leftie rant, things are moving in this area, driven by that new chap running Saudi Arabia. Watch this space.

You mean the one who is bombing the phook out of thousands of defenceless civilians in Yemen and the same one who has locked up all of his detractors? I am just sat waiting for Iran to say "OK, let's be having you!"

[oldcolner]

Back to Trump, he has said he will prove he hasn’t got Alzheimer’s after a weird performance in his speech on Jerusalem where he slurred his words. Blessing the United Shtates.

[Norder]

.

imho....its a Holy War - but for the crusade to invade Muslim nations and gradually weaken them - it needed to construct an enemy, a front...for the True reason we're witnessing all this unnecessary bloodshed - the construction, in Jerusalem, of the Third Temple, ready for the second coming....and perhaps on the very site of the third holiest site in islam - the al Aqsa Mosque.

[Balanbam00]

Oldcolner: ''The issue though is what is “their” country. Jerusalem wasn’t theirs at all.''


It is absurd to claim that the Arabs are the indigenous peoples of Israel, because virtually all the place-names used by local Arabs are non-Arabic in origin, and derived either from biblical Hebrew names or from later Greek or Roman names.
The Romans renamed the entire region Syria-Palestina (named for the Philistines and Assyrians) after they destroyed the Second Temple so as to erase its Jewish roots. This was later shortened to Palestina and it eventually became known as Palestine.
“Palestine (Arabic: Filastin) as a political unit only came into use as a Zionist triumph when imposed by the British occupiers following the issuance of the Balfour Declaration in 1917. Palestinians (Arabic: Filastiniyun) also came into use only in the twentieth century.”

The region that the international community commonly and reflexively refers to as the “West Bank” was known for three millennia as Judea and Samaria (in Hebrew, Yehuda and Shomron). Indeed, Jews derive the very name of their religion and peoplehood from the name Yehuda, who was the fourth son of Jacob and whose tribe settled in that region. Yet, these ancient names have not been exclusively used by Jewish “settlers.” In fact, the U.N. itself, in General Assembly Resolution 181 (1947), referred to the region as Judea and Samaria, as do all maps published before 1948.

It was only in 1950 that Jordan renamed it “West Bank” after illegally occupying the territory in the armistice following Israel’s 1948 War of Independence. The Jordanian name change distinguished the area from the rest of Jordan and “West Bank” also hid the Jewish connection. The Israelis drove the attacking Jordanians out of the territory in 1967.

West of the Jordan River, 277 villages and sites- almost two-thirds of all sites- had names that were similar to or the same as Jewish villages on the same sites during Second Temple times.
Moreover, one-quarter of the 584 Arab localities in Israel and beyond the Green Line have ancient Biblical names. For example, Sakhnin was a Jewish town during the Talmudic era, and Beit Lehem is the Hebrew name for the biblical city of Bethlehem. Hebron (Arabic: al-Khalil; Hebrew: Chevron, which means friend), located in the Judean Mountains. Etc etc.

Most Arab countries bordering Israel derive their names from the Hebrew Bible. Lebanon: Levanon, means white in Hebrew, referring to the snow cover of the surrounding mountains. Syria: Siryon, in the Bible, is the alternate name for Mount Hermon. Jordan/River Jordan (Yarden in Hebrew) takes its name from the Israelite tribe of Dan, and means “descends from Dan.” Gaza, Azza in Hebrew, is mentioned in Genesis and the Book of Judges with the Samson narrative.

So, who is occupying whose territory, who has historical gravitas? Just remember: If you forfeit the language, you forfeit our heritage and history. Make the media, academia and politicians be honest, accurate and accountable.