O/T When did the right wingers....

[ragingpup]

It's a very good question. I think it began when the old socialist ideas which were genuinely revolutionary and a threat to the establishment, were sidetracked by identity politics. The bloc of socialist support which could have genuinely changed things for the better, fragmented as each group began promoting their own cause. Lesbian socialists pursued lesbian causes over economic matters, surplus value and the ownership of the means of production. Likewise black socialists promoted race issues over core socialist values.

The ruling classes saw this fragmentation and depending on your opinion, they either exacerbated or promoted further division along the lines of identity politics or sat back and allowed the left to pursue these matters until all genuinely revolutionary goals had been submerged under rainbow flags, black lives matter and gender pronouns. (It could also be argued that the ruling class, implanted and then promoted these ideas in the first place at a time in history the late 60's and early 70's when a genuine revolution was a real possibility after all they are more intelligent than the working class)


Despite the deluded opinions of some socialists, we are further away from a revolution as we have ever been in our history.(Jeremy Corbyn..I mean c'mon on the day of reckoning he will be down on his allotment).


Consequently a genuinely revolutionary zeal has been funnelled into causes which cannot bring about a revolution.

In response, the right ( I have to confess I don't know much about right-wingers as I am not one) it appears to me are well and truly pissed off with these crackpots and have mirrored the left's misdirected and hysterical responses to trivia to keep them busy and also to promote the belief that they were in a real class struggle. Then at the end of the day the left go home pleased because they have successfully managed to insert gender neutral pronouns into old issues of whizzer and chips, while the right go home back to piles of cash and coke and unassailable power.

That's an interesting theory, albeit quite fanciful.

I think the key difference between us is that you and a few others on here, appear to see identity politics all over the place. Where are all these 'socialist lesbians' of which you speak? Where are the vast hordes of black socialists that are organising protests on race?

I simply don't see any? Where do you see them?

I remember the 70s and although there was a stronger union membership and probably a stronger awareness of workers rights, I certainly don't remember a 'genuinely revolutionary zeal'. Outside of the trade unions, the vast majority of people just got in with the struggles of their own lives.

I think the rise of such vigorous expressions from the right is a much more recent development and is more to do with the mass preoccupation of Brexit, the divisive nature of the mass media and the focus on immigration. This is particularly resonant in Northern towns where immigration has been scandalously mismanaged from several governments. And unfortunately, as you look at many of the more extreme web sites that promote the ideas of a threat to our own national identity, one notices that intensity of their hostility to the left - as if whole 'problem' of mismanagement of immigration is the fault of lefties and that we lefties are the real enemy with our tendency to prioritise human rights, be more accepting of other cultures.

And of course, the local population playing their own type of 'identity politics' have every right to express their concerns. I have no problem with articulate exploration of the cultural challenges we face. But I am sick and tired of the hysterical, simplistic wailing that is going on from the right wingers on this site in response to every little change that society makes. If you don't like it, tweet yourself to the people that are relevant - don't just screech about fascist states, lack of free speech and black lesbian despots forming concentration camps.

It ain't a good look...