O/T Its surprising how people vote

[animallittle3]

The NHS spends billions every year treating health tourists which it doesnt recover due to the 'free at the point of delivery' mantra.

when you open up your borders to the sh1thole countries of the world why do you expect the queues for free healthcare,welfare and education to be anything other than large getting larger ?

But of course, it's the Tory cuts isn't it ?!

In other news I see the old commie has betrayed the will of the Barnsley electorate on the subject of Brexit in order to garner a greater share of the vote. unreported in the Guardian his sidekick was 'caught' with a plaque on his office wall this week commemorating IRA members lost in 'the struggle'
Not to worry though, the red rosette wearing rocking horse has just had it's wheels oiled by that lovely Max Mosley.

And breathe ........ feel better now .

:-) :-) :-)

[KerrAvon]

Kerr , if you can't see the ploy then I'm certainly not going to waste my time explaining it to you .

I feel you should.

The NHS Trusts concerned want to reduce their costs - presumably with the intention of being able to spend more actually treating poorly patiens. They could look to do that by outsourcing the work, but have chosen to do so by moving the work into subsidiaries that are wholly owned by the Trust. How is that privatisation?

And what is wrong with private companies delivering services for the NHS if that cuts costs? Are your objections purely ideological, perchance?

[lk311]

Whilst I don’t disagree with what you have put Kerr, the problem is the difference it will make will be negligible at best.
If you take Lincoln hospital, last reported they were £70 million over budget for this Financial year, so moving these services like this won’t touch their issues.

[lk311]

Highly unlikely the consultant gets £85k for 40% given the average salary is £75 - £101k dependant on experience full time.

[Exiletyke]

this is what all consultants do.
our lasses back has been a problem for many years and we got sick of being pushed around from physiotherapy and outpatients so we went private to get it finally sorted we had the very same consultant that we saw in hospital thru NHS. she had op at nuffields cost 1400 for a 40 min keyhole op and it was the best 1400 ever spent. it got us sorted 18months quicker than it would have been.

Well aren't you lucky that you could afford £1400 to jump the queue
Don't you find it odd that apparently the same consultant could not fit you in,but wave £1400 & hey presto
I don't blame you for going down that route as I would have done the same but it doesn't make it right
Had the consultant been wholly private that would have been a different case
The point is in my opinion that whilst most of us would have done the same it shouldn't be possible to do so
Just remember that whilst jumping the queue you actually moved someone else back one place & next time someone with more money than you will return the compliment so to speak
It really is Toryism personified
What if the "fee" had been £14000,then what?

[Exiletyke]

He would train for a hell of a lot longer than five years to reach consultant level and certainly didn’t reach that grade after just two years.

If he wants to undertake more remunerative work delivering private health care, what's wrong with that?

If he uses NHS facilities, his private employer will be paying for that. Again, what isn't to like about the NHS securing additional funding in that way?

On my calculation, he'll be paying something in the region of £140,000 in tax every year. That will have paid for his university education many times over and helps to fund public services, including the NHS.

It’s wrong to assume that private patients are all rich. Many will have insurance either because they've chosen to pay for it or are given it as part of their employment. Some others will be people who have just been thrifty and saved. Every one of them will reduce the burden on the NHS by going private (in addition to paying tax that goes towards funding it}.

The simple fact is that the NHS is very expensive. According to the internet, when the NHS was launched in 1948, it had a budget of £437 million (roughly £15 billion at today's value). For 2015/16, the overall NHS budget was around £116.4 billion. So that's nearly an eight fold increase. As I pointed out above, Johnny Taxpayer seems reluctant to pick up that tab and Labour's policy of 'someone else will pay' is hardly a realistic option.

Average earnings in 1948 around £400 pa
In 2017 around £27000
about 65 fold
Of course we can afford it just needs the will
Go figure

[lk311]

If John Reid had not ignored his predecessor recommendation of not allowing private work and going back to out of hours availability then above would happen much less

[SBRed48]

Highly unlikely the consultant gets £85k for 40% given the average salary is £75 - £101k dependant on experience full time.

With the new contracts the £75 £101 K is fo a GP.

I can't imagine consultants being happy wi the same pittance.

[SBRed48]

He would train for a hell of a lot longer than five years to reach consultant level and certainly didn’t reach that grade after just two years.

If he wants to undertake more remunerative work delivering private health care, what's wrong with that?

If he uses NHS facilities, his private employer will be paying for that. Again, what isn't to like about the NHS securing additional funding in that way?

On my calculation, he'll be paying something in the region of £140,000 in tax every year. That will have paid for his university education many times over and helps to fund public services, including the NHS.

It’s wrong to assume that private patients are all rich. Many will have insurance either because they've chosen to pay for it or are given it as part of their employment. Some others will be people who have just been thrifty and saved. Every one of them will reduce the burden on the NHS by going private (in addition to paying tax that goes towards funding it}.

The simple fact is that the NHS is very expensive. According to the internet, when the NHS was launched in 1948, it had a budget of £437 million (roughly £15 billion at today's value). For 2015/16, the overall NHS budget was around £116.4 billion. So that's nearly an eight fold increase. As I pointed out above, Johnny Taxpayer seems reluctant to pick up that tab and Labour's policy of 'someone else will pay' is hardly a realistic option.

All thi flim flam has not looked at the central issue of unequal access to healthcare within NHS facilities.

(just as an aside-- Is the BUPA or other medical insurance scheme that some firms (often financial institutions) give their employees taxable ?. If say your firm offers you, say, £4000 on top of your income or family BUPA membership the former is taxable but is the insurance ? A similar tax avoidance scam with company cars was dealt with but I cant remember any details abart this area)

[lk311]

According to BMA there is no set scale for GP and it is up to the individual practice to decide (they operate as private entities), however typical salaries are between £56 -£86k