O/T Its surprising how people vote

[Exiletyke]

No comment from the Poster who started this and similar posts ? I wonder why , posts like this will bring all sorts of arguments , and rightly so , people have different views on life and all around , but it inevitably starts to get unsavoury to say the least, Kinder never relates to anything Football ? He's an Owls fan hell bent on causing upset on our Forum ,

Are you not confusing him with Kerr although he purports to be a Millers fan
Same mould & modus operandi

[animallittle3]

No comment from the Poster who started this and similar posts ? I wonder why , posts like this will bring all sorts of arguments , and rightly so , people have different views on life and all around , but it inevitably starts to get unsavoury to say the least, Kinder never relates to anything Football ? He's an Owls fan hell bent on causing upset on our Forum ,

You know what they say Roma , the only man to ever walk in to Westminster with honorable intentions was Guy Fawkes .

[KerrAvon]

No comment from the Poster who started this and similar posts ? I wonder why , posts like this will bring all sorts of arguments , and rightly so , people have different views on life and all around , but it inevitably starts to get unsavoury to say the least, Kinder never relates to anything Football ? He's an Owls fan hell bent on causing upset on our Forum ,

Should it be like that though, Roma? I would have thought the majority of users of this site are adults and yet some choose to behave like children.

[animallittle3]

Ah... so it is an ideological issue for you. That's why the cross party committee suggested by ESR wouldn't work. It would be a room full of ideologues who would simply fall out. Perhaps the Labour delegation would take Exile along as their figures man, in which case it would quickly kick off.

If profit is concerned, you needn’t have too many worries. Probably the best known provider of private health care in the UK, BUPA, started life as the British Union of Provident Associations and, as you would expect from an organisation that has the history suggested by its old name, runs as a not-for-profit company. The largest supplier of private hospital beds in the UK, Nuffield Health also runs on a not-for-profit basis, which is what you would expect given that it is a charity. Even in the bastion of the free market, the USA, the majority of health care is provided by not-for-profit bodies.

I see you pick a nicely emotive example with the example of a child with meningitis. How about an example such as colliers having his piles sorted out (something must explain his appalling attitude towards other)? The fact is that there is already an element of profit in such treatments. The drugs used in both treatments will be provided by the likes of GSK, Roche and Bayer. The hospital will be equipped with products from private companies. And, of course, your own Patrick Cryne was involved in a number of contracts to provide IT to the NHS. Your Saturday afternoon entertainment will have been partly funded by the profits from that.

Even if we stick with your example of a child with meningitis, if that treatment could be delivered as well for less by a private provider, what is wrong with that? Do you think the child’s parents would care?

I commute by train almost every day and have been a regular rail user since the early 80s. If you think British Rail provided a decent or even barely acceptable service, you are wrong. Rail in this country is streets ahead (no pun intended) of where it was before privatisation. As for the utilities, why don’t you get started on them? The fact is that neither of us can know whether we would have been better or worse off had they remained in state ownership. For my part, I am of the opinion that we would be paying more for a worse service had ownership remained in state owned, over-manned, restrictive practice riddled monopolies. You, I know, will choose to believe otherwise as you are the follower of a party that wants to return us to the 70s.

I see you have a conspiracy theory concerning the privatisation of the NHS. Do you think the public wouldn’t notice if companies that were wholly owned by NHS Trusts were sold off?

Well given your opinion or mine on their own are unlikely to decide the future of the NHS we should really be working towards an NHS election sometime in the future , make or break decided by the electorate .

Let the tories put out their solid record of historical privatisation as their USP and get the NHS monkey of their back for good .

Seems a perfectly reasonable suggestion because both party's are clearly defined on the issue .

The NHS mostly still belongs to the people so it seems perfectly acceptable to let them decide it's future .

What do you think ?

[KerrAvon]

What would the question in the election be? You appear to be convinced that the Tories have an agenda to privatise the NHS - the evidence says otherwise.

Since the creation of the NHS, there have been 39 years of Tory government, 5 years of a Tory led coalition and 26 years of Labour government. During the periods of Tory rule, there have been long periods of time when they had unassailable majorities (notably under Thatcher at a time when the electorate had the 1970s under Labour fresh in their minds). They could have done anything they wished with the NHS.

If your concern about support services being moved into wholly owned by the NHS subsidiaries are the high water mark of the argument it is hardly something to be worried about.

The people had a say in the future of the NHS in the last two General Elections when the Lib Dems offered a rise in Income Tax to pay for it, the Tories offered a stance of 'times are hard, but it's ok' and Labour offered 'somebody else will pay for it'. The Lib Dems, who offered the only honest position, got nowhere.

A referendum on an across the board increase in personal taxes to pay for it would be interesting. It would certainly focus minds on how we are to meet the spiraling costs and the need to drive efficiencies and create savings.

[Exiletyke]

Should it be like that though, Roma? I would have thought the majority of users of this site are adults and yet some choose to behave like children.

So why do you choose to behave like a chlld ?

[animallittle3]

Seems to me the NHS stands at the crossroads with regard to it's future .

Where it stood under Thatcher or last year even isn't the question I raised , the electorate voted on many things previously but I'm suggesting an election with the NHS as the hot topic , similar to May's brexit endorsement election last year .

A referendum is generally only advisory and given the fall out from our last venture in to this territory I'd suggest it wouldn't be particularly well received .

No let's have some red lines on this issue , the tories can pitch their solid privatisation record and take the strain off the taxpayer and build a service that delivers quality and value for money , that is the fundamental tory principal , surely your not attempting to say the NHS is a different kettle of fish and the tories see the service differently from their other policies are you and the NHS is the jewel in the crown and it's model chimes with fundamental principles ? .

Sitting on their hands wouldn't be my view of endorsing the NHS model .

The nation's health and economy are important issues .

Let the electorate decide , we do live in a democracy don't we ??

[KerrAvon]

So why do you choose to behave like a chlld ?

Give me an example and I'll let you know. Whilst you are at it, you can explain the snidey little dig you made before I'd even joined the thread.

Take part in a thread or don't - I'm easy either way and it's your decision. If you are going to take part, just try not to have a tantrum and become insulting when things don't go your way.

[KerrAvon]

Seems to me the NHS stands at the crossroads with regard to it's future .

Where it stood under Thatcher or last year even isn't the question I raised , the electorate voted on many things previously but I'm suggesting an election with the NHS as the hot topic , similar to May's brexit endorsement election last year .

A referendum is generally only advisory and given the fall out from our last venture in to this territory I'd suggest it wouldn't be particularly well received .

No let's have some red lines on this issue , the tories can pitch their solid privatisation record and take the strain off the taxpayer and build a service that delivers quality and value for money , that is the fundamental tory principal , surely your not attempting to say the NHS is a different kettle of fish and the tories see the service differently from their other policies are you and the NHS is the jewel in the crown and it's model chimes with fundamental principles ? .

Sitting on their hands wouldn't be my view of endorsing the NHS model .

The nation's health and economy are important issues .

Let the electorate decide , we do live in a democracy don't we ??

Let the electorate decide on what? Whilst you might want them to, the Tories are hardly going to stand on a 'privatise the NHS' ticket that is clearly not one of their policies.

The NHS clearly is a different kettle of fish, as the evidence of the Tories not having privatised it demonstrates.

[red flagged]

All thi flim flam has not looked at the central issue of unequal access to healthcare within NHS facilities.

(just as an aside-- Is the BUPA or other medical insurance scheme that some firms (often financial institutions) give their employees taxable ?. If say your firm offers you, say, £4000 on top of your income or family BUPA membership the former is taxable but is the insurance ? A similar tax avoidance scam with company cars was dealt with but I cant remember any details abart this area)

Hi SB, there's no 'scam' when it comes to private medical insurance. It's a taxable benefit which I wish I still had now we're getting on a bit. So to answer your question yes you'd get taxed on your extra 4k but yes you definitely get taxed on your 'benefits in kind' which means your medical insurance, mobile phone, company car, company car fuel are all taxed. Basically mate the better your package the more you pay in tax.
In respect of company cars it's actually debatable whether it pays to have one. At my current firm they expect you to use your own car and claim mileage back at x pence per mile whatever the current rate is depending on fuel and RPI. Trouble is whilst it may cover your fuel it doesn't cover tyres, wear and tear, increased mileage and therefore increased depreciation and the fact that you have to insure it for business use - particularly if you travel to multiple sites as I do. So I told them I wasn't prepared to use my own car and they allowed me to choose from the very limited company car list (at my grade of course, you can't just have what you want). Trouble is I pay so much now in company car tax, you pay on the list price of the vehicle for the duration so as the vehicle gets older you still pay the taxable amount based on it's current( new) list price.
I can assure you that there's no scam in either case, the bloke down the street who gets a shiny new beemer every 3 years will be paying handsomely for it in company car tax.And unless he's doing significant company mileage may have been better to lease it himself and save himself some tax.