O/T Its surprising how people vote

[red flagged]

ya he just like to bleet on about his beloved labour party and how brexit is the end of humanity.

Couldn't agree more Yorkshire,unfortunately one or two of the happy clappers on here start to get nasty if you disagree with their brand of socialism. Dare I mention the violence and intimidation during the miners strike, which Scargill called without holding a democratic national ballot as he knew what the result would be ? Or the current momentum movement within the Labour party who seem to be ousting those within the party who don't subscribe to their 'dear leaders' communists views ? When you present socialists with uncomfortable truths they go into personal attack mode. Probably best not to.
Oh.

[red flagged]

I thought you had more sense Exile than to respond in the 1st place to this Kerr Avon I'm sure you've more knowledge about the NHS in your little finger than this UKIP voter has, it's only after confrontation . Wish it would go away then I'll make a come back and talk shyte and football agean.

Colliers,

The thread title is prefixed with O/T so if you only want to read football threads then stay off the ones that say O/T in front !!
The number of posts on this thread demonstrate that there's an interest and an appetite for debate, just because you disagree with what others post doesn't mean they shouldn't be allowed to post it.

And Kerr, it's fairly obvious you're not a Barnsley fan and just come on here to bait the socialists.

Keep up the good work !!

[SBRed48]

Thank you red flagged for that considered reply. I remember well the squealing from high earners in private companies when the company car issue was finally addressed and the benefit became taxable after decades of it being a benefit in kind which wasn't taxed, denying the Govt of t he day millions. I can't recall when the medical insurance benefit in kind became taxable but the scam has clearly been closed. Good.
None of this gets to the central issue of the basic unfairness of those who can afford to pay by whatever means pushing those in an equal amount of pain for just as long but cannot afford to pay further back in the queue for treatment in NHS facilities.

[animallittle3]

Couldn't agree more Yorkshire,unfortunately one or two of the happy clappers on here start to get nasty if you disagree with their brand of socialism. Dare I mention the violence and intimidation during the miners strike, which Scargill called without holding a democratic national ballot as he knew what the result would be ? Or the current momentum movement within the Labour party who seem to be ousting those within the party who don't subscribe to their 'dear leaders' communists views ? When you present socialists with uncomfortable truths they go into personal attack mode. Probably best not to.
Oh.

Just a few points here for balance .

Scargill didn't deny anyone a vote , the delegates from every area in the country voted not to hold a national ballot in april 1984 because erm , they were already on strike , the ballot papers were already printed and held at NUM HQ .

Violence and intimidation , I'd suggest you research The Battle Of Orgreave and then get back to me .

Certain members of the labour party were offered the olive branch after Labour party members elected Corbyn , twice .

They were offered jobs and were offered a seat at the table , many refused and continue to cause friction within the party , Mandelson admitted on national tv that he made a point of undermining Corbyn every day , they won't work with an elected leader .

Labour aren't like the tories , the backbenchers don't captain this ship , the elected leader does .


You yourself seem to have returned to this board after your sabbatical with a rather stronger tone regarding the labour party , where once you were patting us on the head much like you do with your kid brother and laughed at our posts you appear to be adopting a more narcissistic stance .

Any particular reason for this ?

[KerrAvon]

SB, Company cars and health insurance have been taxable benefits for as long as I have had an interest in taxation - the early 80s. What I think you are remembering is the increase in the level of taxation on company cars to make it a less attractive option.

See above on your queue point. People going private serves to make NHS queues shorter for the obvious reason that they are not joining them. It is completely wrong to suggest that anyone in a NHS queue is pushed backwards.

[SBRed48]

SB, Company cars and health insurance have been taxable benefits for as long as I have had an interest in taxation - the early 80s. What I think you are remembering is the increase in the level of taxation on company cars to make it a less attractive option.

See above on your queue point. People going private serves to make NHS queues shorter for the obvious reason that they are not joining them. It is completely wrong to suggest that anyone in a NHS queue is pushed backwards.

1. You call it "making it less attractive", I call it putting a stop to the scam.

2. A simple example--There is this NHS hospital with an operating theatre open 24/7 with associated staff. Patient A with little spare income or medical insurance has a painful condition and sees consultant who recommends an operation. Later that day Patient B sees the same consultant with the same condition for the same amount of time but he has wealth or medical insurance. The consultant says (in flowery language) I can put you on the waiting list but you will be behind Patient A but if you pay me (ie go private) I can magically put you well ahead of Patient A and that poor bugger will have to wait as long as it takes. How is that helping Patient A ? Which queue are these private patients joining ?

[lk311]

Red flagged, if your company is willing to do it, you can opt out of private use of the vehicle and/or fuel which makes the benefit in kind negligible. They would have to get you to keep records of business mileage and be able to demonstrate it tallies up.
Most companies don’t offer it though due to admin costs

[red flagged]

Thank you red flagged for that considered reply. I remember well the squealing from high earners in private companies when the company car issue was finally addressed and the benefit became taxable after decades of it being a benefit in kind which wasn't taxed, denying the Govt of t he day millions. I can't recall when the medical insurance benefit in kind became taxable but the scam has clearly been closed. Good.
None of this gets to the central issue of the basic unfairness of those who can afford to pay by whatever means pushing those in an equal amount of pain for just as long but cannot afford to pay further back in the queue for treatment in NHS facilities.

Pleasures all mine SB ! You must have a long memory, company cars were taxed back in the day when I got my very first one. But they weren't the perk you imagine even back then. If you were lucky enough to be given one it was usually at the expense of the going rate for your job so for example you'd hear - " pays crap but I get a company car" sort of thing.I think it was about 20 years ago when we really got turned over on tax.
Thing is SB very many occupations need to be mobile to do their job; in my game sales reps, technicians, multi site managers etc all need a company car - the list goes on. If you need a car to do your job why should you be taxed so heavily on it ? A brickie doesn't pay tax on his trowel every month does he ? For lots of us a company car is a tool of the trade in much the same way. It's not a perk, I couldn't do my job without one, and most firms now limit any private mileage.

This is why we 'squealed' when the tax rate went up by so much. I'll give you a very recent example, my mate has worked his way up through the fire service so now he's the bloke that turns up wearing the white helmet controlling the incident, seen last week on Look North pushing cars out of snow drifts as it goes. He needs a car for his job,he travels from incident to incident, blue lights and sirens on when needed - the fire service provide one but he's taxed on it , why ?
That's what I mean mate, they're mostly not a perk but a tool of the trade, companies just don't fork out for cars for the sake of it, it effects their P&L as they take the depreciation hit. Why should folk be so heavily taxed on them ?

[SBRed48]

I am an old git red flagged. Twenty years ago is nothing to me.

To help those suffering the burden of having a company car but it is necessary for the job I would suggest the company leases cars/vans etc but they have to be left at work when the shift ends and used again at the beginning of the following day.

[red flagged]

Just a few points here for balance .

Scargill didn't deny anyone a vote , the delegates from every area in the country voted not to hold a national ballot in april 1984 because erm , they were already on strike , the ballot papers were already printed and held at NUM HQ .

Violence and intimidation , I'd suggest you research The Battle Of Orgreave and then get back to me .

Certain members of the labour party were offered the olive branch after Labour party members elected Corbyn , twice .

They were offered jobs and were offered a seat at the table , many refused and continue to cause friction within the party , Mandelson admitted on national tv that he made a point of undermining Corbyn every day , they won't work with an elected leader .

Labour aren't like the tories , the backbenchers don't captain this ship , the elected leader does .


You yourself seem to have returned to this board after your sabbatical with a rather stronger tone regarding the labour party , where once you were patting us on the head much like you do with your kid brother and laughed at our posts you appear to be adopting a more narcissistic stance .

Any particular reason for this ?

Forgive me Animal, I wasn't a miner and have never worked in a unionised workforce so I'm not sure how not voting to hold a national ballot on strike action after actually going on strike works ?

I wasn't at the Battle of Orgreave but growing up in Barnsley understand the depth of feeling reference the strike, I also understand that two wrongs don't make a right in respect of the violence dished out by both sides.
The Labour Party are being purged of anyone who dares to speak out against the extreme left wing views of it's leadership, as an ex labour supporter I'm beyond disappointed at the way the party is being led and run. I'm a patriot with close family ties to the British Army, I can't stomach the fact that the current labour leadership happily supported IRA terrorists and still does. Corbyns performance at the Cenotaph in his first year in office was a disgrace.
Don't forget that it's the sons and daughters of 'the many' they purport to represent who join up, and are then murdered by the terrorists they march in the memory of. And you support them ???

Far from patting you on the head like a kid brother I enjoy your posts enormously - particularly your debates with Kerr. The humour, banter and knowledgeable debate on here is what brought me back to the board to share my own thoughts and opinions. Just because I don't agree with some of your views doesn't mean that I don't respect the man that makes them.

As far as your final question goes on the Labour Party I can't abide what it's become, there was so much potential there but instead it's descended into a party of spiteful class envy and happy clappers. Socialism doesn't work Animal, it's altered the country I love irreversibly, and not for the better.