Derby Rejects Good Enough For Prem Outfit

[Andy_Faber]

Looking 'round the various Cardiff messageboards as their fans prepare for Premdom, two names that crop up as possible/probable 'retain' options from their loan contingent are ex-Ram Jamie Ward and current Ram Craig Bryson - Ward fairly popular, Bryson a bit more so.

Whats all that about? Not good enough for us but good enough for the Prem?

[ramAnag]

Looking 'round the various Cardiff messageboards as their fans prepare for Premdom, two names that crop up as possible/probable 'retain' options from their loan contingent are ex-Ram Jamie Ward and current Ram Craig Bryson - Ward fairly popular, Bryson a bit more so.

Whats all that about? Not good enough for us but good enough for the Prem?

Thought Bryson was one of their better players yesterday but he had been terribly injury prone with us.
I enjoyed watching Jamie Ward at Derby but he’s nearly 32 and is another with injury issues and repeatedly dodgy hamstrings.
Think they ‘left’ Derby as much because of unreliable fitness records as lack of playing ability but I’d be surprised if either are at Cardiff in the Prem next season.
Question may be...will we have a place for Bryson next season now he seems to have proved himself not to be a ‘sicknote’?

[Ramspudnik]

Will the loanees be returning to Derby and play for us in the Play-offs or aren’t they eligible to play.

[Andy_Faber]

Will the loanees be returning to Derby and play for us in the Play-offs or aren’t they eligible to play.

You ask a very interesting question, and one that the EFL's own rules, as published online (remember there will be a legally enforceable version elsewhere) are vague about. Here's the bit, in section 6 on 'Players'

Rule 53 Standard Loans

53.1.4 A Player whose Standard Loan expires (or terminates) at the end of the Season of the Transferee Club but prior to the completion of the League Matches of his Transferor Club (where it is a Member Club) will not be eligible to play in any remaining League Matches for the Transferor Club in that Season;

The words in bold are the key ones:

'Season' is clearly defined: ‘Season’ means the period of the year commencing on the date of the first League Match and, for each Club, ending immediately after the completion of the Club’s final fixture of the League Competition or, if the Club is participating in the Play-Offs, the final Play-Off match for that Club. So, and lets use my favourite hobby-horse Craig Bryson as an example, his SEASON with Cardiff has finished. All league competition fixtures complete, no play-off matches pending.

'League Match' however, isn't well defined. A ‘League Match’ means an Association Football Match in the League Competition. A ‘League Competition’ means the annual League competition for Clubs organised by The League. that doesn't make it clear at all whether the play-offs are included as a 'League Match'.

Failing the inclusion of proper definitions, even if the EFL MEANT to include the playoffs as a set of matches that a loan player couldn't return for, and IF a club (lets say Derby obviously) realy wanted a player back, I think they could argue that the LEAGUE has finished, and could cite the EFL's own records, which show that in seasons past the LEAGUE represents the 46 home and away games, NOT the outcome of the playoffs.

BUT:

Are we bothered? Bryson might have been useful had out midfield not started to 'tick' a bit, especially with the improvement in Johnson and Lawrence, Martin would be a 'last throw of the dice' player and how motivated would he be as fourth choice forward? Blackman, even if we were desperate, hasn't finished his season yet. And I nearly forgot Butterfield, which says it all

[MadAmster]

It is my understanding that our loaned out players are NOT eligible for the playoffs. If they were, I would look seriously at 2 of them. Elsnik who seems to have come on well in his loan period and may well be a fully fledged squad member next season.

The other is Max Lowe. If Olsson's injury is likely to keep him out then, IMO, Max would be an ideal replacement at left wing back.

However, it is all academic as they aren't eligible.

[Andy_Faber]

It is my understanding that our loaned out players are NOT eligible for the playoffs. If they were, I would look seriously at 2 of them. Elsnik who seems to have come on well in his loan period and may well be a fully fledged squad member next season.

The other is Max Lowe. If Olsson's injury is likely to keep him out then, IMO, Max would be an ideal replacement at left wing back.

However, it is all academic as they aren't eligible.

You know more of these fellahs than me, but all useful hands/feet to the pumps IMO

[Ramspudnik]

You ask a very interesting question, and one that the EFL's own rules, as published online (remember there will be a legally enforceable version elsewhere) are vague about. Here's the bit, in section 6 on 'Players'

Rule 53 Standard Loans

53.1.4 A Player whose Standard Loan expires (or terminates) at the end of the Season of the Transferee Club but prior to the completion of the League Matches of his Transferor Club (where it is a Member Club) will not be eligible to play in any remaining League Matches for the Transferor Club in that Season;

The words in bold are the key ones:

'Season' is clearly defined: ‘Season’ means the period of the year commencing on the date of the first League Match and, for each Club, ending immediately after the completion of the Club’s final fixture of the League Competition or, if the Club is participating in the Play-Offs, the final Play-Off match for that Club. So, and lets use my favourite hobby-horse Craig Bryson as an example, his SEASON with Cardiff has finished. All league competition fixtures complete, no play-off matches pending.

'League Match' however, isn't well defined. A ‘League Match’ means an Association Football Match in the League Competition. A ‘League Competition’ means the annual League competition for Clubs organised by The League. that doesn't make it clear at all whether the play-offs are included as a 'League Match'.

Failing the inclusion of proper definitions, even if the EFL MEANT to include the playoffs as a set of matches that a loan player couldn't return for, and IF a club (lets say Derby obviously) realy wanted a player back, I think they could argue that the LEAGUE has finished, and could cite the EFL's own records, which show that in seasons past the LEAGUE represents the 46 home and away games, NOT the outcome of the playoffs.

BUT:

Are we bothered? Bryson might have been useful had out midfield not started to 'tick' a bit, especially with the improvement in Johnson and Lawrence, Martin would be a 'last throw of the dice' player and how motivated would he be as fourth choice forward? Blackman, even if we were desperate, hasn't finished his season yet. And I nearly forgot Butterfield, which says it all

Martin played in the Play-offs for Fulham last season as their season wasn’t finished but they lost to Reading in the Semi-finals, so seeing as Cardiff have already been promoted and finished their season, he is now back at Derby and eligible to play for us in the play-offs.

Same with Butterfield....

We could do with playing them in the Semi-finals to give us an extra boost of options in midfield seeing as we have been lacking in that department all season-long.

[Manofpride]

Max Lowe has to start next season no matter what league we're in!

[Andy_Faber]

Martin played in the Play-offs for Fulham last season as their season wasn’t finished but they lost to Reading in the Semi-finals, so seeing as Cardiff have already been promoted and finished their season, he is now back at Derby and eligible to play for us in the play-offs.

Same with Butterfield....

We could do with playing them in the Semi-finals to give us an extra boost of options in midfield seeing as we have been lacking in that department all season-long.

Martin's position last year isn't relevant to to the current circumstance as he STAYED with a club, which is clearly with the rules.

Not sure some of the players would actually give Derby a boost, although it may well do for the players.

[Ramspudnik]

Wouldn’t mind having Martin playing for us in the Play-offs against his former loanee club, that will add fire to the tie no question about that.