rafa vs Ashley

[TheOtherTerryMac]

rafa could hav walked away when he took us down
he didnt
was he given any guarantees then ??
Why did he stay
why would he work with ash if there was no trust then

when he brought us up was he given guarantees then
he could have walked then if he wasnt happen

you say would i sign for someone who you say isa proven liar
no but i also wouldnt work with anyone i didnt trust ,unless it was cushty and i was coining it with very little better options

he ahs worked with ash for 2 and a bit seasons and he is still here
would you work for someone that long if you didnt trust thenm

especially when it is easy if he was to go to get the other team to buy your contract out
if they thought you were worth it

hes a dinosaur
he has very little options

he blew his worth when he gopt sacked from his last job and the chelsea lads thought his footy was boring

jog on i say and get someone a little bit more enthusiastic willing to work in the constraints that we all know ash implements
stop bleeting like a stuffed pig
sign or go and give the new manager time to shift out rafas sh1te players and get his own team together

we have a nucleaus of a decent side
we just need a manager commited
willing to work within the clubs structure
and there are plenty that will step into his shoes

we are a big club
and no manager is thebiggest part of it

rafa seems to think its his

So your reply is Anti-Rafa this Anti-Rafa and you call other posters you need to take a look at yourself before you start blaming other posters for ruining threads

I know it’s a comparison thread but you never have a good word for Rafa on any thread that is on the forum. It does get very monotonous

[Curian]

I think there is nothing inherently wrong in repeats given that most of our debate centres around Ashley and Rafa.

I also think that we all are speculating and at the same time give our opinion on the scenario, which for the most seem set in concrete.

I am slightly baffled as to the current situation. Therefore, I have looked at the givens:

1. Ashley is a businessman first and foremost
2. Rafa wants to achieve and enhance the team for numerous reasons including his stature

Now the thing is Rafa I presume is being offered the three-year extension on his current salary of 5m per annum (mind boggling) but that’s football.

Ashley wants him to sign this before giving out a budget commitment so it appears. I suppose he is looking for business stability and continuity but I might be giving him too much credit given his perchance for gambling.

So it appears a stalement. We know Rafa will stay until the end of his current contract. Jobs will always be available for him regardless of any of our opinions, as he has proved time and time again he is a top manager. If he signed the extension, it may include a penalty clause(s) if he leaves, otherwise the extension in of itself would not be a deterrent.

On that basis if there is no deterrent Rafa has nothing to lose and can walk away at the end of his current contract and throw the extension in the bin. If not, then he would be tying himself down to an uncertain future. For someone like Rafa it would unacceptable. Other lesser managers, in my view, would probably jump at the chance, unfortunately there all the British failed managers and the merry go round that there appear to be on.

Where does that leave me and my views; frankly confused. Normally you would in negotiations try and get a compromised deal so it’s a sort of win-win outcome. But here we have two distinctly separate individuals, probably as stubborn as each other and that means the outcome is far from certain.

My hope is that a deal can be done but the more it goes on the less likely that will be the case. Even as an optimist I see Rafa here for the forthcoming season and no more under the perceived current situation – not really half-full. That’s my worst case scenario setting aside the impact on players and where they will eventually end up. Though there is relatively few that would be grabbed in the transfer market.

On re-reading this I apologise guys as I can come up with no firm conclusions based on what we know.

[TheOtherTerryMac]

I think there is nothing inherently wrong in repeats given that most of our debate centres around Ashley and Rafa.

I also think that we all are speculating and at the same time give our opinion on the scenario, which for the most seem set in concrete.

I am slightly baffled as to the current situation. Therefore, I have looked at the givens:

1. Ashley is a businessman first and foremost
2. Rafa wants to achieve and enhance the team for numerous reasons including his stature

Now the thing is Rafa I presume is being offered the three-year extension on his current salary of 5m per annum (mind boggling) but that’s football.

Ashley wants him to sign this before giving out a budget commitment so it appears. I suppose he is looking for business stability and continuity but I might be giving him too much credit given his perchance for gambling.

So it appears a stalement. We know Rafa will stay until the end of his current contract. Jobs will always be available for him regardless of any of our opinions, as he has proved time and time again he is a top manager. If he signed the extension, it may include a penalty clause(s) if he leaves, otherwise the extension in of itself would not be a deterrent.

On that basis if there is no deterrent Rafa has nothing to lose and can walk away at the end of his current contract and throw the extension in the bin. If not, then he would be tying himself down to an uncertain future. For someone like Rafa it would unacceptable. Other lesser managers, in my view, would probably jump at the chance, unfortunately there all the British failed managers and the merry go round that there appear to be on.

Where does that leave me and my views; frankly confused. Normally you would in negotiations try and get a compromised deal so it’s a sort of win-win outcome. But here we have two distinctly separate individuals, probably as stubborn as each other and that means the outcome is far from certain.

My hope is that a deal can be done but the more it goes on the less likely that will be the case. Even as an optimist I see Rafa here for the forthcoming season and no more under the perceived current situation – not really half-full. That’s my worst case scenario setting aside the impact on players and where they will eventually end up. Though there is relatively few that would be grabbed in the transfer market.

On re-reading this I apologise guys as I can come up with no firm conclusions based on what we know.

No one knows what’s going on it is pure speculation people blaming Ashley and vise versa

It’s Ashley representatives talking to Rafas representatives. I don’t think the two individuals talk to each other. I think Rafa wants what the fans want and I think Ashley is quite happy to maintain Premiership existence. It makes no difference to him if we finish 4th from bottom every season

So until a new owner comes along which is very unlikely we are stuck with Ashley. He wouldn’t mind a new cheaper manager coming in with a remit to keep us up

I think Rafa would have walked if there wasn’t a big penalty clause in his contract so I guess he will just sit it out till the end of the season which is what everyone of us would do in his situation

[ghostrider]

All we can all do is speculate on everything that is not officially rubber stamped as a truth.
We can all perceive anyone or anything to be good bad or indifferent, depending on the scenario at hand.

This particular too and fro and teet for tat over Rafa verses Ashley seems to have (as I see it) mass opinion stacked in Rafa's favour...no matter what, because the dislike/hate for Ashley goes way beyond allowing him much, if any, leeway.

We all have to look at the bigger picture regardless of whether we love or hate a certain individual because ultimately the end product we all agree on is being fans/supporters of Newcastle United football club.

No matter how it's perceived in terms of history against 11 years tenure of Ashley...it's 11 years of his life he's put into this club in terms of running it directly... or indirectly, through aides.

Ultimately he has to ensure that trust does not get misplaced on one individual.
We also should understand that one individual, whether it's a top player or top manager or top tea lady...are all employees doing a job they are paid to do and are expected to do that job to the best of their ability in terms of what they were employed to do...under the constraints and rules of the business they work in.

Rafa is one man and he did not come to this club with dark glasses and a white stick with a specially trained guide dog to ensure he walked the walk.
He came with his eyes and ears wide open and finely tuned, like his business/management/coaching brain.

His Lawyer dotted all the i's and crossed all the T's on his contract, in which he took a considerable time to sign...so he knew what he was getting and also knew he was in control of his contractual set out.

[pboromag]

No one knows what’s going on it is pure speculation people blaming Ashley and vise versa

It’s Ashley representatives talking to Rafas representatives. I don’t think the two individuals talk to each other. I think Rafa wants what the fans want and I think Ashley is quite happy to maintain Premiership existence. It makes no difference to him if we finish 4th from bottom every season

So until a new owner comes along which is very unlikely we are stuck with Ashley. He wouldn’t mind a new cheaper manager coming in with a remit to keep us up

I think Rafa would have walked if there wasn’t a big penalty clause in his contract so I guess he will just sit it out till the end of the season which is what everyone of us would do in his situation

your wrontg terry
most blame ash without knowing any facts
this thread coes from the MAg
probabaly the worst fanzine there is

couldnt even organise an anti ashly demo of more than 250 people

does that tell you how ****e they are or how loved ash is

i know what i think
but it is used to start another thread to bash the owner

if i posted something from pbormagzine
saying rafa is holding the toon back in the current situation and creating uncertaenty going forward (completly unfounded)
and started that as thread would anyone even consider it

so why an anti club fanzine ??

[TheOtherTerryMac]

your wrontg terry
most blame ash without knowing any facts
this thread coes from the MAg
probabaly the worst fanzine there is

couldnt even organise an anti ashly demo of more than 250 people

does that tell you how ****e they are or how loved ash is

i know what i think
but it is used to start another thread to bash the owner

if i posted something from pbormagzine
saying rafa is holding the toon back in the current situation and creating uncertaenty going forward (completly unfounded)
and started that as thread would anyone even consider it

so why an anti club fanzine ??

Pboro I didn’t even read the article I like to deal in facts not someone’s slant on what is going on. The only people who know the true story are Rafa and Ashley, Charnley andctheir reps

Whatever happens will happen and neither you I or anyone else have no possibility to change that

I could argue pros and cons of this scenario till the cows come home and it wouldn’t change a thing. As Ghost stated in his post what will be will be.

If Rafa moves on then do be it I will still support the Toon irrespective of who is in charge or who owns the Club. It would be nice to have a bit of ambition before the season starts though.

Only time will tell the outcome

[pboromag]

i will support the toon who ever owns it or who ever manages it

what I don't understand is how on a discussion board
people can try and limit how much a particular poster can post on a matter
when as ghost says I am probabaly replying to many peoples responses

but hey ho

[TheOtherTerryMac]

i will support the toon who ever owns it or who ever manages it

what I don't understand is how on a discussion board
people can try and limit how much a particular poster can post on a matter
when as ghost says I am probabaly replying to many peoples responses

but hey ho

Just do your own thing it’s a free country and I wasn’t aware of any restrictions on the board. Posters have the option just to ignore your views it’s once again up to them.

[TheOtherTerryMac]

All we can all do is speculate on everything that is not officially rubber stamped as a truth.
We can all perceive anyone or anything to be good bad or indifferent, depending on the scenario at hand.

This particular too and fro and teet for tat over Rafa verses Ashley seems to have (as I see it) mass opinion stacked in Rafa's favour...no matter what, because the dislike/hate for Ashley goes way beyond allowing him much, if any, leeway.

We all have to look at the bigger picture regardless of whether we love or hate a certain individual because ultimately the end product we all agree on is being fans/supporters of Newcastle United football club.

No matter how it's perceived in terms of history against 11 years tenure of Ashley...it's 11 years of his life he's put into this club in terms of running it directly... or indirectly, through aides.

Ultimately he has to ensure that trust does not get misplaced on one individual.
We also should understand that one individual, whether it's a top player or top manager or top tea lady...are all employees doing a job they are paid to do and are expected to do that job to the best of their ability in terms of what they were employed to do...under the constraints and rules of the business they work in.

Rafa is one man and he did not come to this club with dark glasses and a white stick with a specially trained guide dog to ensure he walked the walk.
He came with his eyes and ears wide open and finely tuned, like his business/management/coaching brain.

His Lawyer dotted all the i's and crossed all the T's on his contract, in which he took a considerable time to sign...so he knew what he was getting and also knew he was in control of his contractual set out.

Fully agree with your post Ghost so Rafa knew what he was getting himself in for so he is perfectly entitled to see out his contract until the end of the season.

If he feels that he doesn’t want to carry on after that then so be it, it is up to him but he is doing no wrong by honouring his existing contract.

[toonlegend]

your wrontg terry
most blame ash without knowing any facts
this thread coes from the MAg
probabaly the worst fanzine there is

couldnt even organise an anti ashly demo of more than 250 people

does that tell you how ****e they are or how loved ash is

i know what i think
but it is used to start another thread to bash the owner

if i posted something from pbormagzine
saying rafa is holding the toon back in the current situation and creating uncertaenty going forward (completly unfounded)
and started that as thread would anyone even consider it

so why an anti club fanzine ??

I think the fact that Rafa stated himself that ashley had not delivered what he had promised regarding transfers last season, is pretty definitive and reason enough for him not tyo believe what he is told without it being written down on tablets of stone