Lawlessness under this goverment

[Leicesterbaggie]

My main gripe regarding Brexit is these whinging remainers. The House of Lords; of course they're going to want to stay in as many of them receive very handsome subsides for land that they own. Tony Blair; what the h ell has it got to do with him? TV and film personalities; same as Tony Blair and what gives them the the right to lecture the rest of us as most of them aren't that bright anyway. I could go on, but you get my drift. If Maggie Thatcher had been PM we'd have been out by now and wouldn't have been bullied by those EU bureaucrats.

Let's face it, if we have another referendum, what's stopping the population demanding another election if the party that millions voted for in the next general election didn't get in? Same difference to my mind.

If we have another referendum on this I don't think I'll ever vote again as democracy will be 'out of the window'.

[WBA123]

My main gripe regarding Brexit is these whinging remainers. The House of Lords; of course they're going to want to stay in as many of them receive very handsome subsides for land that they own. Tony Blair; what the h ell has it got to do with him? TV and film personalities; same as Tony Blair and what gives them the the right to lecture the rest of us as most of them aren't that bright anyway. I could go on, but you get my drift. If Maggie Thatcher had been PM we'd have been out by now and wouldn't have been bullied by those EU bureaucrats.

Let's face it, if we have another referendum, what's stopping the population demanding another election if the party that millions voted for in the next general election didn't get in? Same difference to my mind.

If we have another referendum on this I don't think I'll ever vote again as democracy will be 'out of the window'.

Suppose I'm a whinging remainer then....

Tony Blair won 3 general elections in this country, he's got more of a clue than most.

My main gripe is with the press in this country. Ran by overseas moguls who only care about how deep their pockets are. The Daily Mail is registered in Bermuda to avoid paying tax, its the most hypocritical paper of the lot.

Problem is, people actually believe the sh!t they print. They ran a story about abolishing the House of Lords. Now its all of a sudden a popular choice to abolish it....? Give me strength...

The problem with Brexit is it is threatening our democratic constitution. The House of Lords have been part of our constitution for hundreds of years. The Daily Mail have attacked our civil servants, our independent judiciary, House of Lords and serving MPs. Something should be done, because they are attacking the very fabric of Britain.

This is how this country has been run for centuries, yet we have a Brexit vote 2 years ago and it changes our country. Thought we were 'Taking back control'. What's also ironic is that the Lib Dems tried to reform the HoL in 2010 and Rees-Mogg and Co voted against it. The HoL hasn't changed in the last few years....Just the opportunistic, self serving MPs jumping on the press' bandwagon.

And Maggie Thatcher by the way took us into the Single Market (Or common market as it was called then).

Also, democracy is a process, not a one-off event. So if we vote again to remain, that is democracy. If in the future after that, we vote again and the majority decide they want to leave, then that is too democracy. Democracy doesn't stand still. Its why we have a GE every 5 years. A one-off vote which doesn't change is a dictatorship.

We need a free press but ours are out of control, they need to be regulated somehow. They manipulate for their on personal gain, pity not enough people see it.

[Albionic68]

And Maggie Thatcher by the way took us into the Single Market (Or common market as it was called then).

I think Edward Heath may want a word from the grave.

[WBA123]

I think Edward Heath may want a word from the grave.

Actually you're right, it was good old Maggie who started us off on our way to the Single Market in 1992 (not the common market)...one of her very few successes.

And how right she was...

Here's a transcript of a speech she made on 18th April 1988;


"We must get this right. Too often in the past Britain has missed opportunities.

How we meet the challenge of the Single Market will be a major factor, possibly the major factor, in our competitive position in European and world markets into the twenty-first century. [end p2] Getting it right needs a partnership between government and business.

The task of government is two-fold: —to negotiate in Brussels so as to get the possible results for Britain; —and then to make you the business community aware of the opportunities, so that you can make the most of them. [end p3]

It's your job, the job of business, to gear yourselves up to take the opportunities which a single market of nearly 320 million people will offer.

Just think for a moment what a prospect that is. A single market without barriers—visible or invisible—giving you direct and unhindered access to the purchasing power [end p4] of over 300 million of the world's wealthiest and most prosperous people.

Bigger than Japan. Bigger than the United States. On your doorstep. And with the Channel Tunnel to give you direct access to it.

It's not a dream. [end p5] It's not a vision. It's not some bureaucrat's plan. It's for real"

[Albionic68]

Actually you're right, it was good old Maggie who started us off on our way to the Single Market in 1992 (not the common market)...one of her very few successes.

And how right she was...

Here's a transcript of a speech she made on 18th April 1988;


"We must get this right. Too often in the past Britain has missed opportunities.

How we meet the challenge of the Single Market will be a major factor, possibly the major factor, in our competitive position in European and world markets into the twenty-first century. [end p2] Getting it right needs a partnership between government and business.

The task of government is two-fold: —to negotiate in Brussels so as to get the possible results for Britain; —and then to make you the business community aware of the opportunities, so that you can make the most of them. [end p3]

It's your job, the job of business, to gear yourselves up to take the opportunities which a single market of nearly 320 million people will offer.

Just think for a moment what a prospect that is. A single market without barriers—visible or invisible—giving you direct and unhindered access to the purchasing power [end p4] of over 300 million of the world's wealthiest and most prosperous people.

Bigger than Japan. Bigger than the United States. On your doorstep. And with the Channel Tunnel to give you direct access to it.

It's not a dream. [end p5] It's not a vision. It's not some bureaucrat's plan. It's for real"

Hello again 123. I tend to keep my own own counsel regarding politics and rarely pass comment. As such I've no intention of becoming embroiled in an ongoing debate. However, it's interesting you should quote Maggie Thatcher so extensively. She was indeed an architect in our integration with the EU. Yet she was also an outspoken opponent of the EU increasing powers and influence over domestic policy as was widely reported at the time. I won't be going backwards and forwards to find quotes but I well remember reading of it. Many thanks for sourcing this passage though .

“We must get this right” – whether successive governments have got it right is very much open to opinion and debate, hence the referendum and it’s build up. “A single market without barriers—visible or invisible—giving you direct and unhindered access to the purchasing power ………… the purchasing power [end p4] of over 300 million of the world's wealthiest and most prosperous people.”

A single market without barriers allowing access to purchasing power eh? I think she was referring to free trade between European nations to further enhance their and our collective national wealth. I don’t think her grand plan envisioned the inclusion of economically weaker countries, or migration to the scales you’ve previously mentioned. In all honesty now, do you?

Further to this you've mentioned that the Daily 'Fail' and The Pun (my words not yours) use scare tactics and headlines to influence people's minds. Isn't this exactly what members of the Labour Party do via social media when lambasting the electorate with wildly inaccurate claims regarding funding etc during local elections? Promises for this and that which may or not be economically viable or even costed? I know I'm going off at a tangent here but both sides of the political spectrum are guilty of what you allude to regarding the poisoning of minds.

Personally speaking I gathered an awful lot of information over a long period of time before making my mind up as to which way I'd vote during the referendum. I certainly didn't rely on click bait sensationalist headlines. Much of the information I sourced was from Gov.UK, the EU Commissions site for Research and Innovation and a variety of think tanks both for and against Brexit. I'm sure you did the same, it's just that we came to different conclusions.

Anyway, have you got any idea who we're going to sign, who DM's assistant will be or whether I can finally loff at the Vile yet please ?

[westcountryvillain]

As far as I'm concerned you can laugh at us all you like, it might bite you on the backside though if you don't go up in the next 2 years and stay under Chinese ownership

Really good debate on here, if the readership of those awful papers woke up to the manipulation of thought that's going on and read some of this then their opinions just might be a lot more considered. I too was one of those that carefully listened to lots of radio debate and contributions from people in business & politics. Great point that democracy becomes a dictatorship when a vote stands that turns out to be worse than the alternative. It also gets right up my nose the disrespect shown by sections of the remainers to brexiteers and vice versa.

[Albionic68]

As far as I'm concerned you can laugh at us all you like, it might bite you on the backside though if you don't go up in the next 2 years and stay under Chinese ownership

Okey dokey chap and cheers for the green light. As you insist I'll make the most of your club's current plight lest/if/when the same eventually befalls us. May as well make hay while the sun shines after a terrible season for the Albion .

I've read the Comer brothers have reawakened their interest in Villa. Not sure if that's a good or bad thing given their track record of buying at rock bottom price and selling when on the high. You may have to endure Doctor X a fraction longer for the price to drop a little more before rising under their guidance, only to be sold on once more to who knows what?

However it turns out I'm sure it'll make for more interesting reading than sh i t loads of research papers relating to the EU and Brexit . On a more personal level all of the very best to you and yours WCV. Keep the faith chap but remember it's the hope that kills ya .

[Leicesterbaggie]

Yes, Maggie Thatcher did take us into the Common Market and I was in favour of it. Don't forget, it was only six countries from Western Europe in a trading alliance. A little different to what it is now, virtually a twenty seven nation federal state wanting its own army. Some of them I'm not sure are geographically in Europe. You cannot compare the two, not in my opinion anyway.

You and I, 123, are never going agree politically but I think we at least agree on most things Albion! By the way I don't take the Daily Mail.