OT - Boris Johnson and the Freedom of Speech

[ramAnag]

Boris Johnson knows exactly what he’s doing imo...divide and rule by pandering to the views of the stupid and the prejudiced.
Totally irresponsible and unhelpful comments and the recycling of a very old joke.
Not entirely keen on the burka myself but how different is it from dark glasses, scarves, hoodies, beards and peaked/baseball caps pulled down to shade the face?
Yesterday on the news a late middle aged woman was spouting nonsense about how unacceptable the wearing of the burka was...’might be a man under there’ she shrieked whilst wearing the sort of over sized sunglasses that covered her face from the middle of her nose to well above her eyebrows. Oh the irony...and by coincidence, she would have looked much better in a burka!

P.S. Certainly never seen a child wearing a burka MoP and aren’t there lots of examples these days of wondering whether some one is a ‘man or a woman’ MA?

[MadAmster]

aren’t there lots of examples these days of wondering whether some one is a ‘man or a woman’ MA?

Yes, but some butch geezer with a baritone voice in a dress is usually quite easy to spot

[Geoff Parkstone]

Boris Johnson knows exactly what he’s doing imo...divide and rule by pandering to the views of the stupid and the prejudiced.
Totally irresponsible and unhelpful comments and the recycling of a very old joke.

I guess that I too must be stupid and prejudiced then.

What people do in the privacy of their own home is up to them - although ironically this is possible the one place that the Burka is cast aside! What people do when working in people facing jobs (eg in the case I have experienced, as a teller in a bank) is however quite different. To me its quite simple, when interacting with people in a workplace, be they customers or other employees, then the use of the Burkha is unacceptable. if you cannot accept that requirement, then don't take the job.

The complexities of having to deal with a colleague who you cannot see are just too much. How can you be sure it is the same person in there! Skype and conference calls would be pointless, and honestly, can you really say that you can have an open business discussion with a bin bag?

In between these two extremes, I find it hard to determine if its appropriate or not. The underlying problem is of course fear of Islamic jihad type attacks by bombers in the guise of "innocent women", but so far as I am aware, this disguise has not been used YET. We are a secular society, despite the protestations of sundry religions, and I think we should reflect that - I only see the Burka as inflaming divisiveness, and providing a focus for Islamaphobia

The reality is, though, that the Koran merely requires adherents to "dress modestly" and the burka and its derivatives are subsequent developments. predominantly islamic countries such as Turkey banned its use until very recently, Morocco is in a similarly restrictive condition and Azerbaijan (97% Moslem, mostly Shia) has banned its use in schools and universities.

So I think we need to simiiarly restrict its use - rather than an outright ban - eg in the workplace, in schools and universities, the police, the military etc. If someone wants to go to Sainsbury wearing one though, that's probably just about acceptable?

[ramAnag]

I guess that I too must be stupid and prejudiced then.

What people do in the privacy of their own home is up to them - although ironically this is possible the one place that the Burka is cast aside! What people do when working in people facing jobs (eg in the case I have experienced, as a teller in a bank) is however quite different. To me its quite simple, when interacting with people in a workplace, be they customers or other employees, then the use of the Burkha is unacceptable. if you cannot accept that requirement, then don't take the job.

The complexities of having to deal with a colleague who you cannot see are just too much. How can you be sure it is the same person in there! Skype and conference calls would be pointless, and honestly, can you really say that you can have an open business discussion with a bin bag?

In between these two extremes, I find it hard to determine if its appropriate or not. The underlying problem is of course fear of Islamic jihad type attacks by bombers in the guise of "innocent women", but so far as I am aware, this disguise has not been used YET. We are a secular society, despite the protestations of sundry religions, and I think we should reflect that - I only see the Burka as inflaming divisiveness, and providing a focus for Islamaphobia

The reality is, though, that the Koran merely requires adherents to "dress modestly" and the burka and its derivatives are subsequent developments. predominantly islamic countries such as Turkey banned its use until very recently, Morocco is in a similarly restrictive condition and Azerbaijan (97% Moslem, mostly Shia) has banned its use in schools and universities.

So I think we need to simiiarly restrict its use - rather than an outright ban - eg in the workplace, in schools and universities, the police, the military etc. If someone wants to go to Sainsbury wearing one though, that's probably just about acceptable?

My reference to the ‘stupid and prejudiced’ doesn’t refer to you Parky because your objections are, although debatable, largely logical.
Johnson’s weren’t and, imo, it ill becomes a recent Foreign Secretary and wannabe PM to resort to ridicule in the way that he did.
I think there was actually one example of a male terrorist escaping via the use of burka but that is beside the point because doubtless all the other forms of ‘disguise’ mentioned in my previous post have also been used by terrorists and criminals alike, but no one seeks to criticise them.
What I find worrying is that, as with the Referendum, the likes of Johnson, Banks and Farage will not hesitate to play the ‘sinister, suspicious, alien foreigner’ card in order to win the support of a section of the electorate. It’s happened more and more since the Referendum and the election of Trump which both seem to have somehow made bigotry more acceptable.