O/T DDay for Brexit..well sort of...

[DaveyJohn]

I would also confidently suggest that the section of people you talked about in one of your posts who prefer a soft Brexit with Customs Union etc still intact would be made up mostly of Remainers who have accepted that the original referendum result should stand.


Don't you think that is a bit contradictory DJ?
CU & Brexit don't co exist

Yes I totally agree they don't co exist. I was making reference to one of Ragingpups earlier posts where he split the current national opinion into 5 sub categories;

1. No Deal
2. Hard Brexit
3. May's Deal
4. Soft Brexit with CU etc intact
5. Remain.

That's from memory I haven't scrolled back up so I apologise if there is something wrong. My point was, I would suggest that anyone who's opinion was in line with number 4 would probably have originally voted Remain. But since the referendum gave us a Leave vote, I would guess that these people are respecting the democartic process enough to honour Brexit, but want to make it as soft as possible. I can't imagine for one minute that anyone who voted to Leave in 2016 would have done so hoping that we'd keep all these arrangements in place, what would be the point? We'd still be as good as in the EU, only with no voting rights.

[Exiletyke]

Yes I totally agree they don't co exist. I was making reference to one of Ragingpups earlier posts where he split the current national opinion into 5 sub categories;

1. No Deal
2. Hard Brexit
3. May's Deal
4. Soft Brexit with CU etc intact
5. Remain.

That's from memory I haven't scrolled back up so I apologise if there is something wrong. My point was, I would suggest that anyone who's opinion was in line with number 4 would probably have originally voted Remain. But since the referendum gave us a Leave vote, I would guess that these people are respecting the democartic process enough to honour Brexit, but want to make it as soft as possible. I can't imagine for one minute that anyone who voted to Leave in 2016 would have done so hoping that we'd keep all these arrangements in place, what would be the point? We'd still be as good as in the EU, only with no voting rights.

Still not sure what you are suggesting
If these people want to respect the leave vote but want to make it as soft as possible by remaining in the CU aren't honouring the vote at all
It's what we have all been fed on since the vote ie we respect the result of the referendum but then proceed to ignore it

You can't leave the EU & remain in the CU [ bit like being a bit pregnant]

[KerrAvon]

Well it’s been a tough time for the Tories lately, but if they want to crack a smile, they should come on here to see the Left wingers falling out. We’ve got Exile and BigLaden taking positions that Farage would find a bit too extreme, whilst raging and WanChai are flying the flag for the ‘Metropolitan elite – let’s get behind Starmer and have another referendum’ wing of the party. In the meantime, poor old animal has given up relying on his Momentum twit feed telling him what to think and has simply taken to sticking his finger in the air to to see which way the wind is blowing:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lmTahAali90

It’s a good thing you lads aren’t going to get your General Election – the only civil war would be in your party.

[ragingpup]

Well it’s been a tough time for the Tories lately, but if they want to crack a smile, they should come on here to see the Left wingers falling out. We’ve got Exile and BigLaden taking positions that Farage would find a bit too extreme, whilst raging and WanChai are flying the flag for the ‘Metropolitan elite – let’s get behind Starmer and have another referendum’ wing of the party. In the meantime, poor old animal has given up relying on his Momentum twit feed telling him what to think and has simply taken to sticking his finger in the air to to see which way the wind is blowing:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lmTahAali90

It’s a good thing you lads aren’t going to get your General Election – the only civil war would be in your party.

Sniping away as per Kerr.

Have you decided what view you're going to support next after the Tuesday vote? At least the No Dealers have a consistent view that won't change by the week - they've said what they want after Tuesday, I've said what I want - what about yourself? What do you WANT to happen after the commons defeat of your leader?

(I know you're very sensitive to people using caps to emphasise points in posts, but you seem to have difficulty recognising the emphasis of my question despite repeated attempts.)

[KerrAvon]

Sniping away as per Kerr.

Have you decided what view you're going to support next after the Tuesday vote? At least the No Dealers have a consistent view that won't change by the week - they've said what they want after Tuesday, I've said what I want - what about yourself? What do you WANT to happen after the commons defeat of your leader?

(I know you're very sensitive to people using caps to emphasise points in posts, but you seem to have difficulty recognising the emphasis of my question despite repeated attempts.)

I fear it is you who is being a wee bit sensitive. I've done nothing but try to help you out on this thread - allowing you to navigate between withdrawal deals and transition periods etc. I wasn't sniping (ok, I did take the mickey out of animal and his rather fluid opinions, but he likes it really). I was making a serious point about the depth of division within the Labour Party.

Suppose the Labour Party moves a vote of no confidence next week and the DUP MPs have a rush of blood and decide to support them despite the Republican sympathies of the Labour leadership. A GE campaign would be carnage as Labour tried to settle on a policy; Starmer would be at McDonnells throat, Exile at yours and poor old Jez would be torn by conflicting instructions from you boys at Momentum, who want a further referendum and Len McCluskey, who doesn't.

You surely can't want that.

[ragingpup]

I fear it is you who is being a wee bit sensitive. I've done nothing but try to help you out on this thread - allowing you to navigate between withdrawal deals and transition periods etc. I wasn't sniping (ok, I did take the mickey out of animal and his rather fluid opinions, but he likes it really). I was making a serious point about the depth of division within the Labour Party.

Suppose the Labour Party moves a vote of no confidence next week and the DUP MPs have a rush of blood and decide to support them despite the Republican sympathies of the Labour leadership. A GE campaign would be carnage as Labour tried to settle on a policy; Starmer would be at McDonnells throat, Exile at yours and poor old Jez would be torn by conflicting instructions from you boys at Momentum, who want a further referendum and Len McCluskey, who doesn't.

You surely can't want that.

Disagreeing with someone isn't always being "at their throat".

And it's a bit rich accusing someone else of having fluid opinions when you can't even work out your own preference for what you want to happen after May's defeat??? Flippety flop...

Agree that Labour would have big issues to face in pulling together however. But, and this is crucial, I don't think that internally there are historically dogmatic opinions that would not be up for compromise for the greater good of what Labour is about, and what the country desperately needs. I think that they would pull together for a consensus over that. Corbyn, as a historical Leaver, now knowing that he democratically leads a party whose members are predominantly Remainers is the best case in point.

The Europhile Tories are willing to tear the country apart for their beliefs. Labour don't have that level of obsession with the EU, as shown when Corbyn, in last week's PMQ focused on domestic issues when he could have obsessed on May's struggles. Agree that they would face the same issue in resolving the whole nightmare with a deal and their meetings to establish their manifesto would be interesting!

[MillerBill]

May must get "deal"that majority of the country voted for,in the biggest turnout of voters ever and that means a PROPER Brexit.

[DaveyJohn]

Still not sure what you are suggesting
If these people want to respect the leave vote but want to make it as soft as possible by remaining in the CU aren't honouring the vote at all
It's what we have all been fed on since the vote ie we respect the result of the referendum but then proceed to ignore it

You can't leave the EU & remain in the CU [ bit like being a bit pregnant]

I'm commenting on five categories created by Ragingpup. Nothing more. I am suggesting anyone who believes in a "soft Brexit" can only have been a Remain voter. I'm pretty sure from your comments that you'd agree with that suggestion.

[Exiletyke]

I'm commenting on five categories created by Ragingpup. Nothing more. I am suggesting anyone who believes in a "soft Brexit" can only have been a Remain voter. I'm pretty sure from your comments that you'd agree with that suggestion.

Agreed