The DERRY

[Taintedice]

DFCSS used fans' money to acquire those shares, are you denying that?

[BCram]

DFCSS used fans' money to acquire those shares, are you denying that?

I'm sure the money that secured the sale of the shares from the administrator came from the fans. Why would anyone seek to deny that? All who made a donation were included as a member of the society and treated as having one vote. It wasn't possible to sustain that model and there was a change made to charge a £5 subscription. The original membership was the basis for several years without any payments being asked for. It wasn't practical to try to maintain an organisation with several thousand members especially when the main revenue earning method was taken back by DFC, Deetv. There was a decision to charge an annual subscription and everyone could retain their membership by paying this.

DFCSS has done absolutely nothing that is not within the terms of their rules. I've tried to retain an interest in DFCSS because of the rights they have to restrain FPS from certain actions. I think FPS have shown considerable financial support for the managers that they have employed and unfortunately this has not produced better results.There isn't any agenda from DFCSS. From what I see they correctly understood that the restrictions that they have about the ground, the name and the colours of the club are matters of concern for all supporters and they have acted in exactly the sort of public spirited way by bringing to the attention of their members the fact that FPS would like to move to a new stadium, which is one of the restrictions imposed on FPS. The power to accept changes to these restrictions lies with the board of DFCSS, and it is to their credit that they have employed legal counsel, and shared the situation with their members. Neither DFCSS nor FPS are villains in this discussion. They both want the club to be successful but to get there FPS have a plan to build a new stadium.

I'm sorry you distrust DFCSS but I think in the current situation they have acted with the best interests of all supporters and they genuinely would like to know what they think about the situation they are facing. Do they sell their shares to the club and give up the restrictions that their A shares impose on FPS, or is there another way to act?

[hmac]

Wrong, they belong to the DFCSS which is a membership organisation. Each member of DFCSS has one share in the society.

There's nothing else to discuss on this matter I'm afraid as them's the facts.

This is indeed the facts and in my view the very heart of the PR problem DFCSS has with some fans.

Here's some facts -

Dee4Life/DFCSS was a £1 to join organisation, pretty much the message was in the early early days they wanted everyone to join so made it accessible for all for life.

This worked really well and a lot of money was raised in Admin 1 to save the club.

Dee4Life/DFCSS had someone on the Board to make sure this never happened again.

It happened again.

In August 2010 Dee4Life/DFCSS had approx £8k in the bank

Dee4Life/DFCSS mobilised again in Admin 2 with a target of £250k to do the same again.

They did not reach it. They came nowhere near.

We could check how much they actually reached but despite having expensive web archives dating back to February 2009 the minutes of the meetings disappear from August 2010 January 2014 which is co-incidental I'm sure with the disappearing act of the very people mentioned in previous threads.

Dundee FC and it's staff raised more money during Admin 2 (fundraising that is not normal business operations like gate money etc.) than DFCSS did, despite the best efforts of the DFCSS Chairman at the time to stop this happening.

Now back to non-facts or opinion -

The biggest gripe most people have with DFCSS is the membership fee, this is quite obvious if you look at the dwindled members since it was £1 forever than £5 a year, and it's relationship with the belief they are somehow custodians of all things done and all monies raised in the previous incarnations. In plain English DFCSS now say only members have a say on assets gained during a period when they didn't care where the money came from or the intentions of the people handing it over.

In my view the people putting savings in buckets or running events for fundraising to help their club had no idea that in the future the people controlling that would end up in such a powerful position at the Club, in hindsight the best thing Dundee FC could have done back in the day was label up all fundraising activities inside the stadium to be club events and money direct to the club.

The original Dee4Life did extraordinary things to help their Club, they moved rules and adapted to do their very best for the Club and general fanbase. Todays DFCSS would be well advised to think about that and do the same, canvas the wider base and get a consensus.

[jdfc]

Wrong, they belong to the DFCSS which is a membership organisation. Each member of DFCSS has one share in the society.

There's nothing else to discuss on this matter I'm afraid as them's the facts.

If that’s the case, then they’ve stolen the money donated by genuine fans, I personally put a bit of my hard earned cash into helping to save my club, not so a few can hold onto it and play god

[jdfc]

You seem to me to misunderstand the situation. My understanding is that DFCSS do not want to get the club back under fan based ownership. We have been down that route and it did not work.

I don’t for one minute believe their aren’t any DFCSS members who would jump at the chance of fan ownership, and I know I’m not alone in that thought

[eric_sinclair]

I have no idea who even runs dfcss any more,the problem is the majority of fans are sceptical due to imo the actions of 2 or 3 individuals back in the day who looked to be on an ego trip.Maybe now is the time to restructure the dfcss model to re-engage with the majority of fans like Dee for life did.

[BCram]

I don’t for one minute believe their aren’t any DFCSS members who would jump at the chance of fan ownership, and I know I’m not alone in that thought

I will ask this specific question for you via the email link that all members were given to respond to the information sent out about the FPS discussions.

[BCram]

This is indeed the facts and in my view the very heart of the PR problem DFCSS has with some fans.

Here's some facts -

Dee4Life/DFCSS was a £1 to join organisation, pretty much the message was in the early early days they wanted everyone to join so made it accessible for all for life.

This worked really well and a lot of money was raised in Admin 1 to save the club.

Dee4Life/DFCSS had someone on the Board to make sure this never happened again.

It happened again.

In August 2010 Dee4Life/DFCSS had approx £8k in the bank

Dee4Life/DFCSS mobilised again in Admin 2 with a target of £250k to do the same again.

They did not reach it. They came nowhere near.

We could check how much they actually reached but despite having expensive web archives dating back to February 2009 the minutes of the meetings disappear from August 2010 January 2014 which is co-incidental I'm sure with the disappearing act of the very people mentioned in previous threads.

Dundee FC and it's staff raised more money during Admin 2 (fundraising that is not normal business operations like gate money etc.) than DFCSS did, despite the best efforts of the DFCSS Chairman at the time to stop this happening.

Now back to non-facts or opinion -

The biggest gripe most people have with DFCSS is the membership fee, this is quite obvious if you look at the dwindled members since it was £1 forever than £5 a year, and it's relationship with the belief they are somehow custodians of all things done and all monies raised in the previous incarnations. In plain English DFCSS now say only members have a say on assets gained during a period when they didn't care where the money came from or the intentions of the people handing it over.

In my view the people putting savings in buckets or running events for fundraising to help their club had no idea that in the future the people controlling that would end up in such a powerful position at the Club, in hindsight the best thing Dundee FC could have done back in the day was label up all fundraising activities inside the stadium to be club events and money direct to the club.

The original Dee4Life did extraordinary things to help their Club, they moved rules and adapted to do their very best for the Club and general fanbase. Todays DFCSS would be well advised to think about that and do the same, canvas the wider base and get a consensus.

Thanks again for taking the time to go over the history of DFCSS. The original Dee4Life morphed into DFCSS and we are now where we are. I'm hopeful that the information that guys like you are providing will help DFCSS members and the board of DFCSS to get a much broader picture of what the fan base would like to see. These discussions are helping me to understand the issues and as a member I want to use my contribution to the wisely, although I have to remind everyone that the directors of DFCSS have the power to act on this matter, it is not a requirement that it is a decision that is based on the will of the membership.

[islaydarkblue]

If you are going to complain about education you could at least check your post for spelling errors.

Sorry for the errors.
I was typing the post quickly prior to travelling to the Royal Alexandra Hospital in Paisley for my second attempt at my prostate operation which fortunately this time was a success.

[islaydarkblue]

Thanks for the points made above. It would be interesting to learn how many supporters are part of the DSA. I think there are less than 200 paid up members of the DFCSS, so as you say it could be that the wider fan base needs something more than these two groups. It's an annual £5 to be a member of DFCSS.

I understand that there are 1,000 members of the DSA but you have to be a member of a Dundee Supporters Club which for an annual fee can become a member of the DSA.
Any Dundee supporter can join DFCSS whether they are a member of a supporters club or not. I am a full member of DFCSS but I have never been a member of a Dundee supporters club.