O/T DDay for Brexit..well sort of...

[Exiletyke]

Good grief. Earlier on this thread someone asked whether anyone supporting the EU should be considered a 'traitor' and deported.

Please explain how your answer above is in any way connected to my post which you were responding to
Total mystery
You also seem to agree quite regularly with the comments from Juncker & co and lately the comment from Tusk
Have you thought of relocating to somewhere in the EU where you would obviously feel more at home
You wouldn't then need to give all us back in the UK a second thought

[ragingpup]

...lol

Ok, I should clarify. I was somewhat indifferent thinking that on balance the EU on balance are slightly more progressive that our lot, so actually voted Remain. But I am not campaigning for another vote. That's what I meant.

However, as the preparations and thought process behind the vote, the ridiculousness of the different sections of people all claiming that their own version of Brexit is the "will of the people" and there being absolutely no consensus nationally or in parliament as to what Brexit actually ****ing means, is leading me day by day to thinking there is no way of breaking the deadlock. There is no mandate nationally for a No Deal, whatever the vocal minority of Hard Cores are shouting, and it's only a matter of time before that gets taken off the table - and then where will we be? Hard to look beyond reverting to default of remaining and the ensuing riots or just an agreement to frame a 2nd vote as Leave with No Deal (as leaving with a deal was shown not to be feasible) versus Remain, simply as there is no other way to resolve this.

This outcome will most likely be avoided by MPs either giving up on opposing May's deal with backstop, or if that doesn't gain the 230 votes it needs, climbing into bed with Labour's proposals today to try and get a consensus

[Exiletyke]

Ok, I should clarify. I was somewhat indifferent thinking that on balance the EU on balance are slightly more progressive that our lot, so actually voted Remain. But I am not campaigning for another vote. That's what I meant.

However, as the preparations and thought process behind the vote, the ridiculousness of the different sections of people all claiming that their own version of Brexit is the "will of the people" and there being absolutely no consensus nationally or in parliament as to what Brexit actually ****ing means, is leading me day by day to thinking there is no way of breaking the deadlock. There is no mandate nationally for a No Deal, whatever the vocal minority of Hard Cores are shouting, and it's only a matter of time before that gets taken off the table - and then where will we be? Hard to look beyond reverting to default of remaining and the ensuing riots or just an agreement to frame a 2nd vote as Leave with No Deal (as leaving with a deal was shown not to be feasible) versus Remain, simply as there is no other way to resolve this.

This outcome will most likely be avoided by MPs either giving up on opposing May's deal with backstop, or if that doesn't gain the 230 votes it needs, climbing into bed with Labour's proposals today to try and get a consensus

"But I am not campaigning for another vote. That's what I meant." [/Quote]

Could have fooled me!!

I don't know how often it has to be said
We had a referendum in 2016 & we voted to LEAVE
No qualification was made Leaving with a deal was not on the ballot paper
You say there is no mandate for a no deal but is there any mandate for your supposed made up default for remain
"We will implement your decision" we were told, at great expense

[great_fire]

That'd be gfire

Wrong.

There are some Remainers on social media calling for EU military intervention to stop Brexit, they are certainly traitors.

[Exiletyke]

Wrong.

There are some Remainers on social media calling for EU military intervention to stop Brexit, they are certainly traitors.

How on earth do you stop a process by military intervention?

Mind you placing all the politicians involved under house arrest might be a good start

[great_fire]

They're calling for a coup.

I'm afraid some of the hardcore Remainers have become unhinged and lost control of their senses.

[millmoormagic]

MMM , take a look at some of these quotes from Junker on democracy and how much respect he has for it .

If you think everyone who voted leave is a dolls head then fair enough but in my opinion anyone who wants to be run by people such as Junker and co need to look in the mirror too .


https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...uotations.html

Animal, the right wing media has been drip feeding you shyte about the EU for twenty years, i also don't think everyone who voted for brexit is a dollshead, but it's a fact that millions gobbled up readily the bullshyte that the leave campaign ran on.......£350M to the NHS, immigrants are taking your jobs...etc etc etc

That said, i've never really said i think the EU is perfect, far from it, but rather that than a UK no deal with tories, these lot of incompetent halfwits, in charge....

[ragingpup]

" Could have fooled me!!

I don't know how often it has to be said
We had a referendum in 2016 & we voted to LEAVE
No qualification was made Leaving with a deal was not on the ballot paper
You say there is no mandate for a no deal but is there any mandate for your supposed made up default for remain
"We will implement your decision" we were told, at great expense

Where have I said that I have campaigned for another vote? I am in favour of reaching a deal to leave the EU, respecting the vote.

Yes, we voted to Leave. But what do you mean by 'Leave'? And why is what you mean by 'Leave' any more valid to what anyone else who voted Leave meant by their voting 'Leave'?

Hence the mess.

No one can agree on how we should leave the EU and no one way of doing so has a decisive, conclusive deal that can go through. Parliament is a pretty good selection of the Nation - completely split and unable to agree on a compromise that will win the day.

Personally, I would prefer May to align more with Labour's proposals published today, and have always argued for something along those lines. But, and this is crucial, I would accept May's deal in it's current form, if enough MPs voted for it to get it through parliament. With or without changes to the backstop.

I can understand us wanting to go back and test the EU. If May succeeded, I would be shocked but mightily impressed, and actually a little bit relieved. But it seems that the EU has it's own bottom line (and who of us would really move below our bottom line in a negotiated deal, is that what were getting so cross with the EU about?) and repeatedly is saying that it will not reopen the WA. So we are left with May's existing deal on the table.

Where do we go from here? I know you want us to Leave with No Deal but let's be honest, not enough people in Parliament or in the country as a whole wants that, so it is very unlikely to happen.

So all that being said, what are we left with? Where can we go? It's fine to say 'we should tell them to stick it' etc but in reality, we have to deal with a real situation, with consequences, and I don't think that our politicians are going to let that happen. Rightly in my view. But that's only my view - off to the Tower with me Grist...

The default may yet happen, in which case many in here will be mightily pleased and we'd have to live with it. But the indicator in parliament was that it wouldn't happen, so we will have to deal with what we can agree. And if we can't agree, what do we do then? If we can get something close to a consensus in Parliament but not quite, I would go with That Deal v Leave with No Deal as a public vote. But the more impossible that even getting close looks, I'd be more inclined to go with Leave with No Deal v Remain just to put the whole bloody thing to bed! It least a mandate would be agreed that was clear and decisive. Just as the first vote should have been. If you want a binary choice, make the options binary.

[Stovicmiller]

Over a million votes leave won by don't call that narrow

[Stovicmiller]

So true