O/T DDay for Brexit..well sort of...

[ragingpup]

74,000 more EU citizens came to the UK than people leaving for other EU countries.29 Nov 2018

OMG is that all? That's about the number of people who would fill Old Trafford! Are we really taking a hatchet to our economy just because of the number of people who:

1. would fill Old Trafford, being spread around the country
2. the vast majority of which work and contribute to UK taxes for services
3. do the jobs which need doing and remain unfilled/occupied by temps costing ££s (up to 97kk in the NHS alone)
4. 74,000 will be easily and at least replaced by immigration from Non EU countries (which we've always had control of but never cut down, and which is rising as we speak on this) as well as Visas inevitably granted as part of new trade agreements

I accept that many voted for other reasons than immigration, but have still to hear, despite many requests on here, how EU and ECJ legislation affects any laws that we have wanted to pass or imposed anything on us that I would consider detrimental. Always open to hear arguments for this though. *I thought the video of Tim Martin (Wetherspoons owner), devoting tireless time and money to promoting Brexit in his boozers naming "imposition of EU laws on us" as his primary driver, was then asked to name one EU law he didn't like - and couldn't!

https://www.theguardian.com/global/v...uestions-video

[Exiletyke]

Cameron didn’t call the referendum. He had no power to do so. The facts are these:

The Tories included a promise of a referendum in their 2015 manifesto;
The electorate returned a Tory government on that manifesto;
That government kept its promise and introduced the Referendum Bill (it was actually introduced by Phillip Hammond of all people);
Parliament passed the Referendum Bill, which became the Referendum Act 2015.

Your position seemed confused as you are a staunch leaver but appear upset that the Referendum Act was enacted. Surely you should be happy, however it came about?

For my part, I think a referendum was inevitable. The EU is moving to ever closer integration and, ultimately a federal Europe. That is apparent from such things as Schengen, the creation of n EU army and, of course, the Euro. The UK has always seen the EU as primarily a trade organisation and has resisted closer political and social integration. It was always a matter of time before the tension that created came to a head for both the UK (UKIP took the highest number of votes of any UK party in the 2014 European elections) or for the EU itself which was becoming a two track organisation.

Running is good for both physical and mental health. You should try it.

Bit difficult following a back operation & a broken foot which you will no doubt be aware of

[Exiletyke]

74000 just a snapshot in time & in response to WCM's "it works both ways"
I made no further comment

[Exiletyke]

Bit difficult following a back operation & a broken foot

So when Cameron said he had no regrets in calling the referendum he was lying then was he?
Nothing new there then

"Running is good for both physical and mental health. You should try it." [/Quote]

Doesn't seem to have done Cameron any good although it does seem to sharpen your ability to lie

[ragingpup]

74000 just a snapshot in time & in response to WCM's "it works both ways"
I made no further comment

A comment on my analysis would be welcome though. True that we are past the time to bicker about the referendum outcome, but this is crucial time to discuss the outcome of the WA and Future Agreement.

As it stands, we appear to have May's Deal v No Deal. I acknowledge that you want that.

But the figure you put forward seems to make a nonsense of the fact that we can't go for a softer Brexit "as we would have to accept FoM". Is this amount of people, most skilled workers doing jobs that need to be done and will be done by immigrants from the rest of the world, worth having to accept trade and travel barriers when we can just focus on the ECJ/sovereignty issues in negotiations towards a softer Brexit?

[Exiletyke]

Don' have the inclination to get into one of those endless arguments
What I would ask you though is just one simple question
Is your job threatened by the influx of cheap labour into the UK & knowing what you do to earn a crust, because if it was I would wager you would have a different view

[gm_gm]

OMG is that all? That's about the number of people who would fill Old Trafford! Are we really taking a hatchet to our economy just because of the number of people who:

1. would fill Old Trafford, being spread around the country
2. the vast majority of which work and contribute to UK taxes for services
3. do the jobs which need doing and remain unfilled/occupied by temps costing ££s (up to 97kk in the NHS alone)
4. 74,000 will be easily and at least replaced by immigration from Non EU countries (which we've always had control of but never cut down, and which is rising as we speak on this) as well as Visas inevitably granted as part of new trade agreements

I accept that many voted for other reasons than immigration, but have still to hear, despite many requests on here, how EU and ECJ legislation affects any laws that we have wanted to pass or imposed anything on us that I would consider detrimental. Always open to hear arguments for this though. *I thought the video of Tim Martin (Wetherspoons owner), devoting tireless time and money to promoting Brexit in his boozers naming "imposition of EU laws on us" as his primary driver, was then asked to name one EU law he didn't like - and couldn't!

https://www.theguardian.com/global/v...uestions-video

Averaging over 200,000

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulat...t/november2018

[ragingpup]

Don' have the inclination to get into one of those endless arguments
What I would ask you though is just one simple question
Is your job threatened by the influx of cheap labour into the UK & knowing what you do to earn a crust, because if it was I would wager you would have a different view

I don't wish to have an argument. I respect you views, you speak from the heart and without the chicanery of some on here.

If I was in a job or community where I could visibly see my job and wage being affected by cynical employers recruiting from oversees to work for less than the minimum wage, yes I would be angry and want action. I acknowledge that this does go on and was an argument I carried myself with more conviction until after the referendum. But I was forced by an arfument and research forced upon me to change my belief, and to accept that whilst this does go on it is no where near as prominant as I thought. This FullFact article sums it up well: https://fullfact.org/immigration/imm...s-immigration/

I now believe that, all evidence examined, that a No Deal or Brexit that hikes tariffs on imports/exports will damage our working people much more than is happening by cynical undercutting like this, **** as it may be. We must throw in cultural reasons for voting, especially in many less prosperous towns which have been subject to greater amounts of poorly thought through immigration. I accept also that this doesn't really affect me as I already live in an overall happily multicultural town. But the net balance for me is a push for a softer Brexit that protects jobs and economy.

[animallittle3]

A comment on my analysis would be welcome though. True that we are past the time to bicker about the referendum outcome, but this is crucial time to discuss the outcome of the WA and Future Agreement.

As it stands, we appear to have May's Deal v No Deal. I acknowledge that you want that.

But the figure you put forward seems to make a nonsense of the fact that we can't go for a softer Brexit "as we would have to accept FoM". Is this amount of people, most skilled workers doing jobs that need to be done and will be done by immigrants from the rest of the world, worth having to accept trade and travel barriers when we can just focus on the ECJ/sovereignty issues in negotiations towards a softer Brexit?

We had May's deal or No deal in January and even sooner if she'd hadn't pulled the vote .

This thing should be over now and the time used to prepare for life after march 29th .

Only the fantasists in parliament and democracy deniers have held this thing up .

Absolutely shambolic the vast majority of them , not worth the salary they get .

Turned me right off politics to tell the truth and it will take something extraordinary to get me involved again I can tell you , I've quit giving my time up to elect t@sers and idiots .

Better things to do with my time , put us under marital law for all I care .

As long as myself , partner and family are ok I couldn't give a shyte anymore .

Putting your faith in these numpty's and self servers is deluded in my opinion .

[ragingpup]

Averaging over 200,000

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulat...t/november2018

Were talking only Immigration from the EU. Which as your link confirms is 74k as Exile put forward.

The other 200k isn't affected by anything we decide on Brexit. We have always had, and will continue to have full control over these immigration figures. But you can be sure if we reduce immigration from the EU, it will most definitely increase from the rest of the world accordingly.