O/T DDay for Brexit..well sort of...

[Exiletyke]

Not sure how this supports your argument for us to leave the EU to trade under wto regs. EU steel is doing well in part due to tariffs on China imports. EU protectionism mean there will almost certainly be duty on our exports into the EU. We will find ourselves in the global market up against China with one hand tied behind our back.

Note that you say EU steel is doing well
Think you should tell that to those involved with Port Talbot All 3000 directly & 20000 indirectly
I'm sure they'll be really chuffed for EU steel

[WanChaiMiller]

Note that you say EU steel is doing well
Think you should tell that to those involved with Port Talbot All 3000 directly & 20000 indirectly
I'm sure they'll be really chuffed for EU steel

I didnt say EU steel was doing well. Big Lad posted an FT article saying EU steel was doing well. I am simply using the quote. Please read it in the context of the quoted text and the earlier exchange.

[Exiletyke]

Are you longing for the high environmental standards of the old Warsaw Pact countries, Roly? The mess they left behind is still being cleaned up. Have you been watching Chernobyl?

Or perhaps you might like to reflect on BSE [Mad cow disease] inflicted upon us by our wonderful Min of Ag as I believe it was referred to back in the day & our top notch farming industry feeding cattle what they should not have been feeding them heavily supported by the EU no less so get off your high horse

[Exiletyke]

Good question Exile. I do. I am certainly disillusioned with parliamentary democracy and capitalism. They plainly only work for the minority and not the majority. While leaning towards left wing politics I feel that there is a lot of dishonesty and hypocrisy there as well but I do believe there are some genuinely good lefties out there.

I think we need to have a sort of global democracy based on need not greed. How that would be achieved I don't know and I suspect that capitalism will finish us off first as a species and a visiting alien will land on the planet in years to come and. surveying the ruins and desolation, say why the feck did they base their political systems on unbridled capitalism stupid creatures.

Amen to that Roly

[BigLadonOS]

Farage was going to campaign for another referendum if the the vote was close in favour of remain - so why not.

He has never said that at all, he said he would not give up the fight to get us out of the EU not that he would call for another referendum.

[BigLadonOS]

I'm not sure where you are going with this, biggie.

You are quoting an article from the beginning of 2018 that suggests that steel manufacturers in the EU were finding going a bit easier and which says that was in part down to the EU imposing tariffs on dumped Chinese steel in order to protect the market. Are you saying that is an argument for leaving the EU?

I am saying that it was the build up to this bit.

"A final piece in the puzzle will be the outcome of long-awaited merger and acquisition deals in the European steel industry.

The theory is that fewer players in the market would result in more constrained supply, anchoring prices and so making imports less attractive for buyers."

This bit is also interesting too.
investments, such as Voestalpine’s decision to build western Europe’s first specialist steelworks since at least the 1980s at a cost of up to €300m. It is an Austrian company.


Businesses owned by Voestalpine in the UK.

Gravutex Eschmann International Limited
voestalpine Bohler Welding UK Limited
voestalpine High Performance Metals UK Limited
voestalpine Metsec plc
voestalpine Rotec Limited
voestalpine SIGNALING Fareham Ltd.
voestalpine UK Ltd.
voestalpine VAE UK Ltd.

I do not see Tata Steel there do you?

The EU mantra is to make sure member states do not get **** on by other members??????? Looking at that you could have fooled me.

[great_fire]

The EU has done a fair bit of assets stripping of British companies, they even paid one company a grant to leave the UK and move to Turkey which is not even in the EU.

[WanChaiMiller]

He has never said that at all, he said he would not give up the fight to get us out of the EU not that he would call for another referendum.

You again spinning your Bulls**t. Ffs big lad are you too thick to get it (think I might open every reply to you using one of you rude condescending quotes).

This is the article from the Mirror. Spin it which ever way you way want.

"Nigel Farage warns today he would fight for a second referendum on Britain in Europe if the remain campaign won by a narrow margin next month.

The Ukip leader said a small defeat for his leave camp would be “unfinished business” and predicted pressure would grow for a re-run of the 23 June ballot.

Farage told the Mirror: “In a 52-48 referendum this would be unfinished business by a long way. If the remain campaign win two-thirds to one-third that ends it.”

[WanChaiMiller]

Because we buy these products from them not the other way round

I dont see how it benefits us (to trade with the EU under wto regs).

We are currently in a single market. Imports from EU to the UK comes in duty free, vat free, without the need to enter customs clearance. Goods are sent direct from the exporting country to the warehouse of the buyer. We import £341bn from the EU. 68% is in component parts for out industry.

If we leave the single market to trade under wto regs all imports from the EU will be stopped in a bonded customs warehouse for 'clearance'.* Clearance involves upfront costs that will fall on the importer. Duty and vat has to be paid to HMRC prior to clearing. These payments must be made on each consignment before they can be cleared.

Every consignment has to be checked by customs officials. Commissions are paid to clearing agents and companies will need extra staff to deal with paperwork. All this cost money and causes delays.

Companies can hold a bond with Revenue for automatic payment of vat and duty to speed up clearing.* The bond is an up front payment lodged with Revenue. It works out to about £60k for every £1m. Automating clearance can be done through shipping agents. One shipper told me their bond in excess of £1m per month. They say this could double if duty / vat is applied to EU imports.

We currently import £341bn from the EU. If we continue imports from the EU at the same rate, trading under wto regs will cost UK businesses and shipping agents multi £billions to cover these up front costs. Many wont have the cash flow reserves to cover it.

Ok Ive heard the argument from Rees Mogg we should go to zero duty.* I understand the Gov has published their preferred tariff rates. There is also a view we could offset vat. Nothing is confirmed. It has created massive uncertainty.

[Exiletyke]

I didnt say EU steel was doing well. Big Lad posted an FT article saying EU steel was doing well. I am simply using the quote. Please read it in the context of the quoted text and the earlier exchange.

For what purpose do you "use the quote" then?
Do you agree or disagree that EU steel is doing well as quoted?