O/T Democracy

[MillerBill]

When a deal has been agreed, if there were to be a referendum on that, there can only be a vote on that deal or no deal.Remaining has already been voted out.

[Exiletyke]

When a deal has been agreed, if there were to be a referendum on that, there can only be a vote on that deal or no deal.Remaining has already been voted out.

Weren't we told many times especially by Kerr that leaving with no deal is the default position

[WanChaiMiller]

When a deal has been agreed, if there were to be a referendum on that, there can only be a vote on that deal or no deal.Remaining has already been voted out.

Agree Bill.

[great_fire]

I think you might mean this guy mikemiller

He's been around since the late 80s/ early 90s, no-one had heard of Jacob Rees-Mogg then.

[flourbasher]

When a deal has been agreed, if there were to be a referendum on that, there can only be a vote on that deal or no deal.Remaining has already been voted out.

That's a bit chicken and egg though.
You won't know what the deal is until the end of the transition period.
Then it will be too late to realise you've been given yet another poor deal by the EU. We,ll then be in exactly the same position that we,RE in now

[flourbasher]

To add to Roly - the Leave Group campaigned on the promise that we would exit the EU with a better deal than existed as a full member state.

Yes and that's what we're intending to do Wanchai.
Leaving the shackles of the EU certainly is a much better deal than being a full member of the EU.
So they're only delivering what they said they would do

[animallittle3]

I'm afraid if Johnson can't negotiate a deal with the EU and get it through parliament then in my opinion leaving the EU won't happen .

His strong arm and fuq you parliament tactics have spectacularly failed and his position weakens by the day .

Reading tonight that the more moderate tories could end his premiership within the next two weeks and call for an extension which will then lead us in to a GE .

Johnson was hired by the Tory party to get Brexit done and very little else .

Whoever can form a government it will probably lead to a referendum with remain on the ballot paper unless the Lib Dems have a majority in which case you won't even get that , they'll simply revoke article 50 .

Not that it will be the end of the matter should we end up remaining , far from it .

Farage and his Brexit Party could have serious consequences for the two major parties making the country almost impossible to govern .

We may not have seen anything yet compared to what the future years could have in store .

[Shark27]

I'm afraid if Johnson can't negotiate a deal with the EU and get it through parliament then in my opinion leaving the EU won't happen .

His strong arm and fuq you parliament tactics have spectacularly failed and his position weakens by the day .

Reading tonight that the more moderate tories could end his premiership within the next two weeks and call for an extension which will then lead us in to a GE .

Johnson was hired by the Tory party to get Brexit done and very little else .

Whoever can form a government it will probably lead to a referendum with remain on the ballot paper unless the Lib Dems have a majority in which case you won't even get that , they'll simply revoke article 50 .

Not that it will be the end of the matter should we end up remaining , far from it .

Farage and his Brexit Party could have serious consequences for the two major parties making the country almost impossible to govern .

We may not have seen anything yet compared to what the future years could have in store .

It's going to be carnage but then again I suppose that's what you get if a country votes for something and mps refuse to act on it.

One day soon we may even see Farage in charge of this country and in my opinion the people who have prevented Brexit will have got just what they deserve.

[KerrAvon]

Kerr I have a genuine question for you regarding the law which prevents no deal.

If the EU do not grant an extension and parliament reject a deal it means that we would leave without a deal and therefore the law cannot be enforced. In your experience are there many other laws in this country that have the potential to be unenforceable? Also should a law that has the potential to be unenforceable be brought in?

Isn't it like a couple getting a divorce and a judge says that one of you can walk away without agreeing a settlement but the other one can't?

It puzzles me that such a law would be brought in!

The Benn law does not prevent no deal - it requires BoJo to ask for an extension if a new deal isn’t agreed by, I think, 16th October. As you have observed, it does not and cannot compel the EU to agree to extend and if they don’t agree, we either leave on the 31st with no deal or Parliament is going to have to vote to revoke Article 50.

As I mentioned earlier in the thread, the law says nothing about how BoJo is to ask. It would be open to him to go to the EU and say ‘I’ve been told to apply for an extension. I don’t know what it is supposed to achieve given that Parliament want neither a deal nor a no deal exit and the official opposition doesn’t even know what it’s position on Brexit is’. France and a couple of other countries are closing to saying ‘non’ and that approach just might do it.

If BoJo refuses to ask the EU for an extension, someone will go to court for an order that compels the government to do so. On that basis, it’s not correct to say that the law is unenforceable. It is simply that it is not guaranteed to have the intended effect as it is dependent upon the EU granting an extension. Your divorce analogy is a good one.

The attempt to prevent a no deal takes the UK’s main bargaining chip off the table in its dealings with the EU. Even if BoJo secures a new deal (which is likely to be a repackaged version of the May deal) , it would still have to get past Parliament in a ‘meaningful vote’ which is unlikely given that Labour will continue to play political games with a view to trying to secure power for themselves.

[KerrAvon]

When a deal has been agreed, if there were to be a referendum on that, there can only be a vote on that deal or no deal.Remaining has already been voted out.

Labour have been clear that their further referendum will have the options of the deal that they say they can get and remain. No deal is not on their agenda.

The deal Labour appears to be aiming for is a Norway style nightmare – we pay money, we take their laws, we accept the jurisdiction of their courts, but have no seat at the table when new laws are created. Remain is infinitely preferable to that. Perhaps that is the intention.