O/T Demonic Cummings.

[swaledale]

It's always good to be on the receiving end of insults, you know you've won the debate as the other person has nothing else left to give. 😘

Alternatively he may just have come to the conclusion your a **** and not worth arguing with?

[swaledale]

Weird reply...so now we have to have met and chatted with someone to form an opinion do we? I have many opinions of people I haven’t ‘met and chatted to’ as do we all. Are they all now invalid because you’ve set this new criteria? Maybe you need a rethink on Corbyn amongst others.

He is a historian and a political being who is suddenly on a scientific and medical body making decisions about how to handle a pandemic. He hasn’t been elected, he isn’t a scientist or a medic. Asking why he’s there doesn’t seem unreasonable.

No idea how my comments are any sort of ‘equivalent’ of your - possible - ‘casual racism’. Perhaps you’d like to explain, because it just sounds a bit like ‘tit for tat’ bollux at the moment.

I haven't met Trump but have come to the conclusion based on observing what he says and does and his history that he is a grade one arsehole!

Interestingly Cummins who mocked the Press about not caring for the "poor" citizens ripped off by the Eu is not short of a bob or to himself.!

[swaledale]

Nothing at all. But transparency only seems to be one sided in the press. I'd love to see transparency in everything. I'm still waiting for the book of shame over the Muslim rape gangs.

Do you or do you not agree about the NHS story in the Gaurdian?
NHS shouldn't have to raise money and should have funds at its request.
Yet gives away £115 M in free treatment- never mentioned?

My reply is based on RA's transparency questions are all off Guardian front pages.
Perhaps there should be a link to it everyday, so we can reply without him having to ask?
My disdain of the Guardian, is that it plays on peoples emotions to rile them. If it isn't ethnic outrage, it's poor desperate migrants, travelling across Europe with their iphones after paying thousands to trafficers..
Thats why you get the likes of Owen Jones promoting his gay outrage, Ash Sakar with her imperialistic hatred and Muslim superiority complexes.

That's why folks in here and all over the country are fed up with it. That being told your British/white/christian/straight/honest/non transgenda is some kind of shame you have to drag around with you.
Lies lies lies.

Read this and see if it gives you better picture. Its from a few years ago, but you must recall the event.

https://off-guardian.org/2018/02/22/...n-of-villainy/

So you have a disdain for a media source, which though far from perfect is at least independent?

As for your white working class victimhood, well you parade that on here as if your proud of the fact that your a narrow minded, bigoted, xenophobic, homophobic and that regrettably there are a number of people who share your narrow view of the world.

I do wonder why you feel threatened by anyone or any race that is different to you? You spout right wing propaganda and profess to support authoritarian government and rules, yet in another post your criticising the Police for being over officious! You contradict yourself in every post and then put an interpretation on views and issues which only a dimwit would do.

It seems to me that you criticse anything or anyone that doesn't share your views and then rather like Trump instead of responding to points, make the same accusations against those who call you out.

What exactly have you against people being treated equally? What is it about your sad little life that you swallow the biased crap that is spouted about immigrants and Muslims etc? Is it because you have not developed mentally from a child, that you seek to blame people who are different from you for society's ills. Do you and your ilk really understand how manipulated you are?

What a sad life you lead Thicky, unable to distinguish that humans have a capacity for good and evil irrespective of their ethnicity or background, that being White British does not make you inherently superior or inferior to any other race, that the scapegoats you blame are not only not the problem, but rather it is the very people who you support in the media and government and their shadowy backers who are the biggest threat to you (you really ought to read up on how Hitler came to power in germany and how people there were happy to blame the Jews, the Gypsies etc.) you and some folks (though you infer its a majority, thankfully its not, just a few million sad *******s who find change hard to cope with and by some quirk of though consider the 1950's to be some sort of golden age) are sick of what exactly?

A society where its population are treated equally irrespective of their S*x, s**uality, disability, race, religion, age, etc?

If so then your one very sad lad!

[mistaram]

[QUOTE=swaledale;39484819]Alternatively he may just have come to the conclusion your a **** and not worth arguing with?[/QUOTE
]
I wouldn't go that far Swales but pretty close Geoff lives in a bubble where nobody else should have an opinion Just because someone hasn't personally met Cummings then they have no right to have an opinion ffs

[Trickytreesreds]

So you have a disdain for a media source, which though far from perfect is at least independent?

As for your white working class victimhood, well you parade that on here as if your proud of the fact that your a narrow minded, bigoted, xenophobic, homophobic and that regrettably there are a number of people who share your narrow view of the world.

I do wonder why you feel threatened by anyone or any race that is different to you? You spout right wing propaganda and profess to support authoritarian government and rules, yet in another post your criticising the Police for being over officious! You contradict yourself in every post and then put an interpretation on views and issues which only a dimwit would do.

It seems to me that you criticse anything or anyone that doesn't share your views and then rather like Trump instead of responding to points, make the same accusations against those who call you out.

What exactly have you against people being treated equally? What is it about your sad little life that you swallow the biased crap that is spouted about immigrants and Muslims etc? Is it because you have not developed mentally from a child, that you seek to blame people who are different from you for society's ills. Do you and your ilk really understand how manipulated you are?

What a sad life you lead Thicky, unable to distinguish that humans have a capacity for good and evil irrespective of their ethnicity or background, that being White British does not make you inherently superior or inferior to any other race, that the scapegoats you blame are not only not the problem, but rather it is the very people who you support in the media and government and their shadowy backers who are the biggest threat to you (you really ought to read up on how Hitler came to power in germany and how people there were happy to blame the Jews, the Gypsies etc.) you and some folks (though you infer its a majority, thankfully its not, just a few million sad *******s who find change hard to cope with and by some quirk of though consider the 1950's to be some sort of golden age) are sick of what exactly?

A society where its population are treated equally irrespective of their S*x, s**uality, disability, race, religion, age, etc?

If so then your one very sad lad!

Hic, c'mere yer foooooooker
Ilsh fight e'vry fooooooookin one of yers hic
Yers bashteds
Dunt yer nurs I ish yers betters hic.



Go to bed dafty.
Bigoted? Naaaaaaaaaaw far from it. Tabita will vouch for that

Xenophobic? Considering the amount of plane hopping I do, I'd doubt that one as well

Homophobic? Tabita has two sons and two daughters. Both lads are gay. brilliant

Right wing propaganda? Maybe, seeing as they are not scared to print what others will not, like you beloved left wing propaganda Gaurdian.
I criticise the police for being crap at times for what they do. Over zealous persuing motorists/photgraphers/litterers
Yet failing miserably, when confronted by something that is delicate like rape gangs/hate preachers/knife crime for fear of being racist.

Don't lecture me on WW2 and its seeds. I have studied it in depth as a real interest. The Nazi's also got a better foot hold in Europe by soft apologists like yourself with appeasement or self interest treaties. The simularities of the tactics Nazi's power grab and your beloved EU are there if you look.

To quote a phrase, I love Europe. I love it the for its different cultures and beauty now. Not some watered down version and I deinitely don't want to be run by it under one flag/politburo.

I think the word your looking for is equality. A fine word it is. Unfortunately, it's becoming more like Orwells animal farm every day.

Now sleep it off, there's a good lad,

[ramAnag]

How do you "know"? I will grant you may have read in the media, you may have seen stuff on the net, but you "know"... no. The Russian people thought Stalin was a hero first class in the midst of the purges. They read in the media this was so. I genuinely would love to learn how you know all about Cummings?

The facts I quoted about Cummings at the beginning of this thread are things I ‘know’. Beyond that, you have a point, there are things I believe to be true because of what I’ve read, heard or scene in the media.
It is the same with all politicians, or celebrities come to that. We know what we learn from the media, in my case the ‘responsible media’, so to suggest that one has to actually have met and interacted with someone to ‘know’ what they stand for is nonsense.
I have opinions on individuals from Mussolini to Thatcher, from Corbyn to Cameron, Jesus Christ to Trump and Best to Hector...I haven’t met any of them.
The difference with Cummings is that one rarely, if ever, hears from the man himself. That is something I find more than a little sinister and makes me suspect you can add ‘unaccountable’ to a list which already includes ‘unelected’ and ‘unqualified’.

[Geoff Parkstone]

Now we are moving to common ground. Certain facts can be known, but the majority of "knowledge" nowadays comes from media, conjecture, spin doctors, image managers etc. My example of meeting someone to know them is one extreme, and actually even having met is no guarantee of knowing someone.

When it comes to politicians or celebrities or any public figure, you have a muliverse of opinion from which to select and build your impression of a person. To one person, Corbyn may seem to be a decent well intentioned humane individual striving to create a more acceptable society. To another he might seem to be an irresponsible half wit intent on destroying the status quo.

It's the same person, but the impression you have of them is moulded by the media, social media, spin doctors etc. Both their own media, supportive media or antagonistic media.

So what you "know" is in fact the impression spun by your preferred media. You refer to your sources as responsible media (is there any such thing?) but one man's meat is another's poison.

So coming back to Cummings and the assertions.

"Unqualified" - since we do not know what his role is on Sage, we cannot say this beyond the fact that he has no medical qualifications. But that does not make him unqualified to say, chair the meeting or provide layman balance. Think parent governors with no teaching knowledge, think non executive directors on corporate bodies.

"Unelected" - I don't believe all of the members of said committee are elected in the sense of parliamentary election. Maybe none are MPs: it's an advisory body with membership probably nominated by a commons select Committee.

So if we accept the things you "know" as true, I would contend that these facts have only marginal relevance.

The remainder of your experience and reason is purely conjectural based on informed reading of selective media. It's opinion, no more, and opinion gleaned from media with specific axes to grind.

This is not a criticism of you - everyone tends to believe what they want to believe where it suits their own objectives. Eg my perspective on Corbyn, yours on Cummings. But they are beliefs not facts, reason or experience.

As is rapidly becoming clear, I don't trust any media, social or real. It's all propoganda for one cause or another. Not exactly yet a conspiracy theorist, but heading that way as regards manipulation of public opinion.

It's nothing new, but it's been cranked up given the surging access to other people's views, which simply distort and invalidate reality.

I'm not saying Cummings won't eat our children, but at this point I don't accept the demonisation. Maybe I'm wrong, but I dont plan to follow the media pointers on this one

[mistaram]

Now we are moving to common ground. Certain facts can be known, but the majority of "knowledge" nowadays comes from media, conjecture, spin doctors, image managers etc. My example of meeting someone to know them is one extreme, and actually even having met is no guarantee of knowing someone.

When it comes to politicians or celebrities or any public figure, you have a muliverse of opinion from which to select and build your impression of a person. To one person, Corbyn may seem to be a decent well intentioned humane individual striving to create a more acceptable society. To another he might seem to be an irresponsible half wit intent on destroying the status quo.

It's the same person, but the impression you have of them is moulded by the media, social media, spin doctors etc. Both their own media, supportive media or antagonistic media.

So what you "know" is in fact the impression spun by your preferred media. You refer to your sources as responsible media (is there any such thing?) but one man's meat is another's poison.

So coming back to Cummings and the assertions.

"Unqualified" - since we do not know what his role is on Sage, we cannot say this beyond the fact that he has no medical qualifications. But that does not make him unqualified to say, chair the meeting or provide layman balance. Think parent governors with no teaching knowledge, think non executive directors on corporate bodies.

"Unelected" - I don't believe all of the members of said committee are elected in the sense of parliamentary election. Maybe none are MPs: it's an advisory body with membership probably nominated by a commons select Committee.

So if we accept the things you "know" as true, I would contend that these facts have only marginal relevance.

The remainder of your experience and reason is purely conjectural based on informed reading of selective media. It's opinion, no more, and opinion gleaned from media with specific axes to grind.

This is not a criticism of you - everyone tends to believe what they want to believe where it suits their own objectives. Eg my perspective on Corbyn, yours on Cummings. But they are beliefs not facts, reason or experience.

As is rapidly becoming clear, I don't trust any media, social or real. It's all propoganda for one cause or another. Not exactly yet a conspiracy theorist, but heading that way as regards manipulation of public opinion.

It's nothing new, but it's been cranked up given the surging access to other people's views, which simply distort and invalidate reality.

I'm not saying Cummings won't eat our children, but at this point I don't accept the demonisation. Maybe I'm wrong, but I dont plan to follow the media pointers on this one

Geoff I have to agree with all of that you are right to point out that two people can come to opposite opinions of the same thing Its people like Tricky and Ram who are just dismissive of anything that isn't right thinking or has the audacity to question anything this government does I'm very left thinking about a lot of things but I can honestly say I've never read the Guardian or looked at it on line They don't seem to understand newspapers have and always will be political

[Geoff Parkstone]

Thank you!

[ramAnag]

Now we are moving to common ground. Certain facts can be known, but the majority of "knowledge" nowadays comes from media, conjecture, spin doctors, image managers etc. My example of meeting someone to know them is one extreme, and actually even having met is no guarantee of knowing someone.

When it comes to politicians or celebrities or any public figure, you have a muliverse of opinion from which to select and build your impression of a person. To one person, Corbyn may seem to be a decent well intentioned humane individual striving to create a more acceptable society. To another he might seem to be an irresponsible half wit intent on destroying the status quo.

It's the same person, but the impression you have of them is moulded by the media, social media, spin doctors etc. Both their own media, supportive media or antagonistic media.

So what you "know" is in fact the impression spun by your preferred media. You refer to your sources as responsible media (is there any such thing?) but one man's meat is another's poison.

So coming back to Cummings and the assertions.

"Unqualified" - since we do not know what his role is on Sage, we cannot say this beyond the fact that he has no medical qualifications. But that does not make him unqualified to say, chair the meeting or provide layman balance. Think parent governors with no teaching knowledge, think non executive directors on corporate bodies.

"Unelected" - I don't believe all of the members of said committee are elected in the sense of parliamentary election. Maybe none are MPs: it's an advisory body with membership probably nominated by a commons select Committee.

So if we accept the things you "know" as true, I would contend that these facts have only marginal relevance.

The remainder of your experience and reason is purely conjectural based on informed reading of selective media. It's opinion, no more, and opinion gleaned from media with specific axes to grind.

This is not a criticism of you - everyone tends to believe what they want to believe where it suits their own objectives. Eg my perspective on Corbyn, yours on Cummings. But they are beliefs not facts, reason or experience.

As is rapidly becoming clear, I don't trust any media, social or real. It's all propoganda for one cause or another. Not exactly yet a conspiracy theorist, but heading that way as regards manipulation of public opinion.

It's nothing new, but it's been cranked up given the surging access to other people's views, which simply distort and invalidate reality.

I'm not saying Cummings won't eat our children, but at this point I don't accept the demonisation. Maybe I'm wrong, but I dont plan to follow the media pointers on this one

Sorry GP, I think all you’re doing is moving onto the safer ground of semantics as regards what is ‘knowledge’.

If I follow your reasoning above I would only have an opinion on four MP’s because I have only ever met, and conversed with, four MP’s, and history would be a complete waste of time with nothing to teach us because, of course, we haven’t met people from the past.

To an extent it is true to say that ‘history is written by the winners’ as it is true to say that what we know of current individuals we learn through (and via which maybe very different) the media.

My ‘knowledge’...of characters from General Haig to Mahatma Gandhi and Nelson Mandela to Boris Johnson is then formed by a combination of biography, historical account, media interview and media reporting. I won’t always be right, but I’ll back myself to be bright enough to be able to sort the wheat from the chaff as far as those accounts are concerned.

That’s what we, as human beings do, even with the people we think we know, and indeed with the contributors on here, very few - if any - of whom have actually met each other, but most of whom would be able to venture an opinion on who they’d actually be happy to spend time or see eye to eye with.