O/t sturgeon

[Mudskipper]

Sorry disagree about dogs. Not my kind of creature. If you used a budgie as an example of an animal that has more common sense than politicians, then I would agree. Also think there's more common sense spoken on here than anything on the TV. Piers is really doing my head in.

He’s generally on point with politicians and takes them too task but he’s been losing the place lately.

On another note I genuinely think this Kier Starmer is going to annihilate Johnson in PMQ’s ,he seems to operate on stats and figures and being prepared,Boris just blusters his way through ....

[Deeranged]

Boris just blusters his way through ....

Because he's a fkn moron.

[Returnofrros]

UK - 233,000 cases and 33,614 deaths population 66.65M

Sweden - 28,582 cases (12.27% of UK cases) and 3,592 deaths (10.69% of UK deaths) population 10.23M (15.35% of UK population)

Both countries show a general drop off in new cases 3,342 in UK and 637 (19.06% of UK new cases) in Sweden on 13th May - only real difference I can see is that UK new cases 'seem' to be dropping steadily whereas Sweden's graph is much more up and down and actually increasing over the past few days. Can only assume this is due to less stringent control measures

Lower instances per head of population in Sweden than UK and lower deaths per instance. Wonder why when, as you say, their containment controls are looser? It should be rife according to our government(s).

Christ I'm bored.

Yes but there should be between 50k and 60k deaths now in Sweden if you put the modelling the UK used as reason to semi lockdown onto Sweden.

There hasn't been.

[Deeranged]

Yes but there should be between 50k and 60k deaths now in Sweden if you put the modelling the UK used as reason to semi lockdown onto Sweden.

There hasn't been.

Agreed, according to our government(s) it should be rife. As I said the only real difference I can see is that the Sweden graph shows very clearly, for me at least but some might disagree, less control which would be expected considering they're letting the virus essentially do what it wants. What it looks like it's doing is peaking and troughing but essentially declining. Eventually it will burn itself out as immunity grows in both populations and will be eradicated by a vaccine eventually.

In summary though all the restrictions in place here are helping give a controlled decline but they aren't producing significantly better results than Sweden. Having said that however if the UK figures spike again even that benefit is gone.

[BCram]

UK - 233,000 cases and 33,614 deaths population 66.65M

Sweden - 28,582 cases (12.27% of UK cases) and 3,592 deaths (10.69% of UK deaths) population 10.23M (15.35% of UK population)

Both countries show a general drop off in new cases 3,342 in UK and 637 (19.06% of UK new cases) in Sweden on 13th May - only real difference I can see is that UK new cases 'seem' to be dropping steadily whereas Sweden's graph is much more up and down and actually increasing over the past few days. Can only assume this is due to less stringent control measures

Lower instances per head of population in Sweden than UK and lower deaths per instance. Wonder why when, as you say, their containment controls are looser? It should be rife according to our government(s).

Christ I'm bored.

Think there is a big difference in their households, many single person households, they have also been home working for years and there is a big difference in the obesity levels. Sweden about 19% and us about 28%. Many fewer multi generation households too.

[Deeranged]

Think there is a big difference in their households, many single person households, they have also been home working for years and there is a big difference in the obesity levels. Sweden about 19% and us about 28%. Many fewer multi generation households too.

Don't know much about Sweden's demographics, actually don't know a singe Swede, but all sounds plausible.

Fact is though I don't see a massive difference in the stats I've shown except for the less controlled recent decline and even that isn't hugely defined. Maybe if we drilled down something significant would be coughed out, who knows?

One thing that does stick out for me in the UK figures is the reported disproportionate number of black and Asian deaths. Could it be that Sweden has a proportionally lower black and Asian population?

[BCram]

Agree Deeranged. I did statistics course as part of my degree, many years ago. All I remember is that consistency was essential if you wanted to compare anything. All our figures produced are so full of inconsistencies it makes it very difficult to interpret anything.
The initial panic was that the NHS would fail to cope so they focussed on it and did all the stuff about flattening the curve. They managed to avoid this but I think it was done by not getting people who had the virus into hospital. We don't know how many people got the disease and lived through it.
Maybe the Swedes have much higher levels of personal health than we do, maybe the survival rates are much much higher than we see from the almost entirely hospital based figures that we are seeing on the daily news programmes.
Who knows but with the Health and Safety issues now being pushed down the line towards local businesses I worry that the online shopping model will take root and as you can see from the worries about the companies who run shopping malls, it isn't just local businesses that are a concern.

[BCram]

Sorry, meant to agree about the possible differences in the genetic composition of the Swedish population. That's the trouble with statistics, if you don't like the answer you just change the question.
I had a thought about the simple idea that where care homes were situated might influence the results when trying to relate the number of deaths to the number of care homes in an area,rather than assuming the deaths were related to the level of social deprivation.
It seems to me to be disgraceful that nursing homes and residential homes have been on the outside of government plans

[noahrab]

I think the main stream media coverage has been appalling.

All basically singing from the same hymn sheet. Every reporter and every station attempting to out drama queen the other.

Joe public gets the media they deserve though and it's always one sided.

Just as a wee aside normally they are always quick to report from scandanavian and in particular Sweden when they do something well or perceived to be better than here.

Not seen any live reports from Sweden or any interview with their head scientist.

However I think if Sweden's death toll had rocketed under their much much looser version of containment then the camera crews would have been over there camped out at hospitals, morgues, auld folks homes and undertakers

No much mention of Sweden's economy hardly registering a blip either.

The media are only interested in tripping people up.

No intention of informing the public. When the public have had the opportunity to ask questions they have been much better.

[noahrab]

He’s generally on point with politicians and takes them too task but he’s been losing the place lately.

On another note I genuinely think this Kier Starmer is going to annihilate Johnson in PMQ’s ,he seems to operate on stats and figures and being prepared,Boris just blusters his way through ....

Starmer might well do good things at PMQ’s....but are miles off being an effective opposition with the policies and some of the MP’s they have that control that policy.