Covid 19 and the Media

[Ram59]

Hmmm...totally empathise with your feelings regarding grandchildren, Ram...but what Cummings did was surely much worse, if perhaps more understandable, than the Scottish medical advisor.

Having decided that he had the virus he then decided to embark on a journey from London to Durham, knowingly carrying the virus with him and in absolute defiance of the rules/government advice regarding the protection of older people.
Given that he’s very, very wealthy I would have thought he could have come up with a less risky strategy.

Seems a bit of a ‘one rule for some’ scenario to me. Suspect there’ll be rather more to come out about it yet.

Don't you think that Cummings' parents would have been involved in the decision making, as we have done?

Unless they stopped on the journey, there was no risk to others. He took the virus in his car to an isolated building on his parents farm, the only risk was that his child could have passed it on to his parents.

As I have said, we had already decided on the same action should it have happened to my family. As a parent and grandparent, I strongly feel that it would my duty to look after my family and would have been very unhappy with my kids if they'd decided to tough it out on their own a long way away, maybe Cummings' parents felt strongly the same way?

So, you would willingly allow your grand children to be cared for by strangers in that situation?

[ramAnag]

Don't you think that Cummings' parents would have been involved in the decision making, as we have done?

Unless they stopped on the journey, there was no risk to others. He took the virus in his car to an isolated building on his parents farm, the only risk was that his child could have passed it on to his parents.

As I have said, we had already decided on the same action should it have happened to my family. As a parent and grandparent, I strongly feel that it would my duty to look after my family and would have been very unhappy with my kids if they'd decided to tough it out on their own a long way away, maybe Cummings' parents felt strongly the same way?

So, you would willingly allow your grand children to be cared for by strangers in that situation?

I’m not sure whether Cummings’ parents being involved in the decision making is remotely relevant Ram?
I’m assuming they’re at least in their sixties or seventies and the rules and rationale are one of the few things that are clear.
I’m also not sure that allowing the ‘grand children to be cared for by strangers’ was the only option...but, like you, I don’t know.

I absolutely understand the ‘toughness’ of the decision, however I think it unlikely that the 4/5 hour 265 mile journey from London to Durham would have been made without at least one fuel/toilet/drink stop so, whichever way you look at it, knowingly carrying the disease almost the length of England to an area which, at the time, was far better off than London seems highly irresponsible.

One could also be critical of your potential decision, however understandable, to set up a Covid-19 isolation unit on your front drive which may perhaps be very adjacent to passers by, or my recent abandonment of normal social distancing rules when my neighbour died (non Covid) suddenly and I have entered the house several times to help and support his grieving partner.

We all have to make tough decisions but when you are part of the rule making process you really need to adhere to them scrupulously imo.

[swaledale]

I’m not sure whether Cummings’ parents being involved in the decision making is remotely relevant Ram?
I’m assuming they’re at least in their sixties or seventies and the rules and rationale are one of the few things that are clear.
I’m also not sure that allowing the ‘grand children to be cared for by strangers’ was the only option...but, like you, I don’t know.

I absolutely understand the ‘toughness’ of the decision, however I think it unlikely that the 4/5 hour 265 mile journey from London to Durham would have been made without at least one fuel/toilet/drink stop so, whichever way you look at it, knowingly carrying the disease almost the length of England to an area which, at the time, was far better off than London seems highly irresponsible.

One could also be critical of your potential decision, however understandable, to set up a Covid-19 isolation unit on your front drive which may perhaps be very adjacent to passers by, or my recent abandonment of normal social distancing rules when my neighbour died (non Covid) suddenly and I have entered the house several times to help and support his grieving partner.

We all have to make tough decisions but when you are part of the rule making process you really need to adhere to them scrupulously imo.

Ah yes obey all rules theres a good boy, no room for thinking for oneself and taking responsibility!

[Ram59]

I could just imagine how the advert would look, for someone to care for their child.

Wanted strangers to care for young child 24/7, probably infected with covid 19, so full ppe needs to be used at all times, for a period of a few weeks. Apply to D Cummings.

I think that the child would be scarred for life.

[ramAnag]

Ah yes obey all rules theres a good boy, no room for thinking for oneself and taking responsibility!

Lol...I’m actually quite the reverse and to some extent I’ll admit I’m playing ‘devil’s advocate’, but such moral dilemmas are why there is a need for rules. They’re not needed until such dilemmas and dichotomies arise and then, apparently, they’re there to be broken.

I’ll take responsibility for my actions 100% of the time, Swale...it’s when my, Cummings or Ram’s actions, however well intentioned, impinge on the well being of others that there’s an issue.

[ramAnag]

I could just imagine how the advert would look, for someone to care for their child.

Wanted strangers to care for young child 24/7, probably infected with covid 19, so full ppe needs to be used at all times, for a period of a few weeks. Apply to D Cummings.

I think that the child would be scarred for life.

Well, being serious, on the basis of your wording of that advert...it almost certainly would have been - scarred for life - had it led to the death of one or both grandparents.

[swaledale]

Lol...I’m actually quite the reverse and to some extent I’ll admit I’m playing ‘devil’s advocate’, but such moral dilemmas are why there is a need for rules. They’re not needed until such dilemmas and dichotomies arise and then, apparently, they’re there to be broken.

I’ll take responsibility for my actions 100% of the time, Swale...it’s when my, Cummings or Ram’s actions, however well intentioned, impinge on the well being of others that there’s an issue.

I was being tongue in cheek, but seriously we are in danger of getting our underwear in a twist over minor issues here. Whilst I agree Cummings trip seems at odds with what others are being told, thousands are having to travel to work often by public transport and as such I don't see Cummings trip as being especially problematic - its more the need for someone telling others what to do not doing it themselves thats the issue.

I have to say I'd do the same as Ram59 were it a member of my family, and I have had a family member going to work all through the lock down anyway.

I do sense this increasingly authoritarian approach to the lock down, we all must obey the rules - rather than assess the risk to oneself and others and act accordingly - for instance I took no notice of the 1 hour restriction or the number of times I went out - as it happens I could and can do this without seeing many people and keeping my distance when I do.

Beware the thought police!

[Ram59]

Well, being serious, on the basis of your wording of that advert...it almost certainly would have been - scarred for life - had it led to the death of one or both grandparents.

As a grandparent RA, what would have done in the same situation?

[mistaram]

Waste of time talking about this nothing will happen Johnson has already said Cummings has done nothing wrong It will just get long grassed Remember Robert Jenrick did exactly the same thing only two hours after going on TV and telling us stay at home Interesting though with Cummings he's saying one thing and his wife something else

[mistaram]

Personally, sack him. He knew the score.


However, I did chuckle when I read this on Sky News. "a joint" investigation by the Guardian and the Mirror has found that....................

No ulterior motive of course

Well it was never going to be in the Express or Daily Fail now was it