O/T. The Government's handling of Covid

[swaledale]

Why would I ‘explode’, Ram? You and GP have become very fond of suggesting what ‘RA’ - and Swale or mista - will do/think etc but it’s invariably unfounded.

Do I think/have I ever suggested that teachers and head teachers are beyond reproach? Of course not. There are good and bad in all walks - and professions - of life. Simple as that and teachers are no exception.
I know of at least one teacher who has made the most of the opportunity provided for non attendance. On the other hand I also know that my daughter worked in school every single day of the last half term and that the two schools my wife and I worked in prior to retirement have remained open throughout the pandemic...even providing a ‘social service’ through the Easter holidays.

I don’t doubt for a moment that ‘opportunist heads’, as described by GP, exist and I share his contempt for them, however have most
teachers let down their students? I don’t think so.

I spent most of my career working with 14-16 year olds so I have to go back almost half a century to remember A levels. They were always, as with most exams, something of a lottery and that seems to be being replicated, albeit in another form, this year.

Much more important though than the ‘distraction’ of A level results is what will be happening in September. It will not be the fault of teachers if parents do not feel sufficiently confident in the physical ability of schools to follow social distancing rules.

The government, in the form of Gavin Williamson - aka Frank Spencer - has known about the problem for months but simply not tackled it. They love to take the credit for ‘building’ new hospitals so quickly back in March and April but in fact they did no such thing. They requisitioned certain buildings and equipped them as, largely and thankfully unused, hospitals.
Such action was worthy of praise but why haven’t they taken similar steps with schools?
Time after time we hear the mantra that all pupils will return to school as normal in September and hang wringing Frank tells us there’ll be fines for parents who don’t conform to this ‘moral responsibility’.

It won’t work...teachers, pupils and, above all, parents have justifiable concerns. You cannot safely fit a full class of pupils into a classroom with dimensions that defy all other ‘new normal’ rules regarding social distancing. Steps such as the acquisition of alternative/temporary buildings and the ’upskilling’ of teaching assistants should already be in place but unfortunately we have a Prime Minister and an Education Secretary who haven’t a clue and nothing has been done.

What I suspect you’ll see very soon is pupils on part time (50% at best) timetables and a great deal of online teaching for those with the equipment, parental support/capability, and motivation to make the most of it.

Ultimately the current A level fiasco will, I suspect, make little difference. What happens in all areas of schooling from September onwards will...but I don’t think you can blame teachers for the abject lack of planning.

Agree with most of what you say, but on children returning to schools, its got to happen, much worse for the children to miss more education and roam the streets not socially distancing and the risk to teachers? Got to be lower than medics, retail staff, transport staff et al who have worked through the pandemic without significantly higher death rates.

I accept there may be some particularly vulnerable teachers who will need special measures, but vulnerable staff in other employment such as retail and transport who meet hundreds if not thousands of different people everyday from different locations are back at work and seem to be coping, so managing far less pupils who are known and who come from the same place each day should be simple and in fact it is because other countries have done it.

However, doubt this government will be able to manage it!

If the government want to know how to do it, well there are plenty of countries who managed it in May, so go and see how Denmark (as one example) are doing it!

[Andy_Faber]

Agree with most of what you say, but on children returning to schools, its got to happen, much worse for the children to miss more education and roam the streets not socially distancing and the risk to teachers? Got to be lower than medics, retail staff, transport staff et al who have worked through the pandemic without significantly higher death rates.

I accept there may be some particularly vulnerable teachers who will need special measures, but vulnerable staff in other employment such as retail and transport who meet hundreds if not thousands of different people everyday from different locations are back at work and seem to be coping, so managing far less pupils who are known and who come from the same place each day should be simple and in fact it is because other countries have done it.

However, doubt this government will be able to manage it!

If the government want to know how to do it, well there are plenty of countries who managed it in May, so go and see how Denmark (as one example) are doing it!

Not particularly pro- or anti- govt, I've been checking out the BBC website, pretty informative and looks at stuff from a lot of angles. Sorry if y'all already check this out https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-51768274

[ramAnag]

Not particularly pro- or anti- govt, I've been checking out the BBC website, pretty informative and looks at stuff from a lot of angles. Sorry if y'all already check this out https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-51768274

Wow...AF has something positive to say about the BBC shocker.

[Andy_Faber]

Wow...AF has something positive to say about the BBC shocker.

I'm pretty even-handed about stuff rA, BBC produce some real quality as I've said in the past, I'm just disappointed at their obsession with diversity as you know. The issue I raised about the BBC 'Doughnutting' BAME faces into every possible feature has now become endemic, and hasn't gone unnoticed by my friends 'the silent majority', broadly non-racist folk who are just ****ed off with the practise which is actually in breach of the BBC's charter

[ramAnag]

I'm pretty even-handed about stuff rA, BBC produce some real quality as I've said in the past, I'm just disappointed at their obsession with diversity as you know. The issue I raised about the BBC 'Doughnutting' BAME faces into every possible feature has now become endemic, and hasn't gone unnoticed by my friends 'the silent majority', broadly non-racist folk who are just ****ed off with the practise which is actually in breach of the BBC's charter

I know you are...there again there have been times when you’ve run he who shall not be mentioned close in terms of condemnation of the dear old BEEB.

[swaledale]

I'm pretty even-handed about stuff rA, BBC produce some real quality as I've said in the past, I'm just disappointed at their obsession with diversity as you know. The issue I raised about the BBC 'Doughnutting' BAME faces into every possible feature has now become endemic, and hasn't gone unnoticed by my friends 'the silent majority', broadly non-racist folk who are just ****ed off with the practise which is actually in breach of the BBC's charter

I find it strange that you get worked up about this! Firstly I've not noticed this, so some examples of what to me seems a very sweeping assertion would be helpful. Secondly how can one be "broadly non racist"? You are either are or your not! Of course there are varying degrees, but generally if BAME TV presenters or people on the screen pisses you off, I'd say that points in one direction.

Not sure why you think its an issue, I'm more concerned about how good a presenter is at what they do, not bothered whether they are BAME or not, but maybe I don't see it as an issue? Shouldn't all media try to reflect the mix of the society they are operating in?

I have noticed more obviously disabled presenters and that I applaud, the more representative of actual society we see on the media the better.

[MadAmster]

I find it strange that you get worked up about this! Firstly I've not noticed this, so some examples of what to me seems a very sweeping assertion would be helpful. Secondly how can one be "broadly non racist"? You are either are or your not! Of course there are varying degrees, but generally if BAME TV presenters or people on the screen pisses you off, I'd say that points in one direction.

Not sure why you think its an issue, I'm more concerned about how good a presenter is at what they do, not bothered whether they are BAME or not, but maybe I don't see it as an issue? Shouldn't all media try to reflect the mix of the society they are operating in?

I have noticed more obviously disabled presenters and that I applaud, the more representative of actual society we see on the media the better.

Prior to going into teaching, I was a senior IT Manager. I had run quite a few recruitment drives. Advertised vacancies to replace staff who had left. Read thousands of application letters and their accompanying CVs. I invited the best candidates, on paper, for an interview. I then chose the best candidate(s) to fill the vacancy(ies). I didn't give a rat's ass if they were male, female, Caucasian, BAME or whatever. I was purely interested in a) their suitability to perform the job to the levels I and the company required and b) whether they fit into the team. To help with that, part of the interview was conducted with members of the team present and taking an active part.

As a result we ended up with a broad spread of characters, introvert, extrovert, thinkers, doers............ and a spread of gender, colour etc.

If I'd ended up with a department of black, lesbian, catholic invalids I would be happy in the knowledge that I had hired the best available candidate at the time of hiring. I know for a fact that my gaffer wanted me to hire the best available. That was my job and that was what I did. I am actually amazed that others don't do the same.

After retiring from teaching I did 2 days a week for 2 years working at a friend's IT recruitment company vetting application letters, CVs, doing first interviews and running the best candidates past the client before deciding who would be invited for interview. Again, I was only interested in how good they were for the job in hand. The final decision was the client's but I gave them the best of the applicants to choose from. That approach saw us (a small company of 5 people) take some clients off large national and multinational agencies. We had the personal touch and the clients were happy with what we sent them. To cut down on staff, the larger companies vetted CVs by passing the CVs through software looking for keywords. Their agents had no IT background and couldn't understand the CVs if they tried. We were all IT professionals and we knew if someone was trying to pull the wool over our eyes. One time I had a CV that looked perfect for the job. I then studied it and the applicant was claiming to have used some products but could show no evidence of where he had learned how to use/code it. I invited him for a "1st interview". For 20 minutes he had the idea it was going well and I was "buying" his very well rehearsed backstory. I then asked a few hard but fair questions regarding where he'd had, for instance, the training for CICS and a couple of technical questions. He was stymied. If I'd sent him to the client, I am 99% certain they would have hired him and that would have damaged our reputation.

Why hire 2nd or 3rd best just because they fit a certain demographic? Best for the job has always been my mantra.

[swaledale]

Prior to going into teaching, I was a senior IT Manager. I had run quite a few recruitment drives. Advertised vacancies to replace staff who had left. Read thousands of application letters and their accompanying CVs. I invited the best candidates, on paper, for an interview. I then chose the best candidate(s) to fill the vacancy(ies). I didn't give a rat's ass if they were male, female, Caucasian, BAME or whatever. I was purely interested in a) their suitability to perform the job to the levels I and the company required and b) whether they fit into the team. To help with that, part of the interview was conducted with members of the team present and taking an active part.

As a result we ended up with a broad spread of characters, introvert, extrovert, thinkers, doers............ and a spread of gender, colour etc.

If I'd ended up with a department of black, lesbian, catholic invalids I would be happy in the knowledge that I had hired the best available candidate at the time of hiring. I know for a fact that my gaffer wanted me to hire the best available. That was my job and that was what I did. I am actually amazed that others don't do the same.

After retiring from teaching I did 2 days a week for 2 years working at a friend's IT recruitment company vetting application letters, CVs, doing first interviews and running the best candidates past the client before deciding who would be invited for interview. Again, I was only interested in how good they were for the job in hand. The final decision was the client's but I gave them the best of the applicants to choose from. That approach saw us (a small company of 5 people) take some clients off large national and multinational agencies. We had the personal touch and the clients were happy with what we sent them. To cut down on staff, the larger companies vetted CVs by passing the CVs through software looking for keywords. Their agents had no IT background and couldn't understand the CVs if they tried. We were all IT professionals and we knew if someone was trying to pull the wool over our eyes. One time I had a CV that looked perfect for the job. I then studied it and the applicant was claiming to have used some products but could show no evidence of where he had learned how to use/code it. I invited him for a "1st interview". For 20 minutes he had the idea it was going well and I was "buying" his very well rehearsed backstory. I then asked a few hard but fair questions regarding where he'd had, for instance, the training for CICS and a couple of technical questions. He was stymied. If I'd sent him to the client, I am 99% certain they would have hired him and that would have damaged our reputation.

Why hire 2nd or 3rd best just because they fit a certain demographic? Best for the job has always been my mantra.

It should be and having done years in assisting companies recruit, develop and retain staff it is supposed to be the aim, however easier said than done sometimes. There is a tendency for people to want to recruit employees who fit their own subconscious perception of what the ideal employee looks and behaves like. So if your interview panel or Board is composed of middle aged white males, that tends in most cases to be what they recruit as senior staff who then continue the process.

[ramAnag]

Agree with most of what you say, but on children returning to schools, its got to happen, much worse for the children to miss more education and roam the streets not socially distancing and the risk to teachers? Got to be lower than medics, retail staff, transport staff et al who have worked through the pandemic without significantly higher death rates.

I accept there may be some particularly vulnerable teachers who will need special measures, but vulnerable staff in other employment such as retail and transport who meet hundreds if not thousands of different people everyday from different locations are back at work and seem to be coping, so managing far less pupils who are known and who come from the same place each day should be simple and in fact it is because other countries have done it.

However, doubt this government will be able to manage it!

If the government want to know how to do it, well there are plenty of countries who managed it in May, so go and see how Denmark (as one example) are doing it!

I agree with you about how unacceptable it would be for children to be ‘roaming the streets not socially distancing’ and I haven’t actually mentioned ‘vulnerable teachers’...they should simply be confined to online provision...end of.

You’re also right that medics, retail - in the area of food/supermarkets anyway - and transport staff have been very much in the front line.

Having said that...my health centre waiting room remains out of action, I understand that many GP appointments are being carried out via the telephone, clothes shops don’t allow the fitting rooms to be used and even supermarkets - where staff, imo, deserve just as much of a clap as those in the NHS - are employing some sort of equation involving square footage of the store and the number of people allowed in at any one time.

Schools are, in all other situations, a known hotbed of viral transmission and even if, in general, younger people do not suffer such a potentially serious version of the virus they still have the capacity to take it home and trigger a new spike/second wave.

Obviously having a daughter who works in a primary school I have a personal concern for her welfare just as I would if she were a doctor, nurse or a supermarket worker. She was teaching half a class - thus giving social distancing a chance - throughout June and July with no apparent problem however, it is the prospect of teaching a full class - in accordance with Johnson’s ‘moral responsibility’ demands - that concerns me...not so much from a personal point of view but because the comparatively cramped conditions of most classrooms are the very conditions we are avoiding in all other buildings and are the conditions that are likely to encourage transmission of the virus which will then be taken home to parents, siblings and older family members.

[swaledale]

I agree with you about how unacceptable it would be for children to be ‘roaming the streets not socially distancing’ and I haven’t actually mentioned ‘vulnerable teachers’...they should simply be confined to online provision...end of.

You’re also right that medics, retail - in the area of food/supermarkets anyway - and transport staff have been very much in the front line.

Having said that...my health centre waiting room remains out of action, I understand that many GP appointments are being carried out via the telephone, clothes shops don’t allow the fitting rooms to be used and even supermarkets - where staff, imo, deserve just as much of a clap as those in the NHS - are employing some sort of equation involving square footage of the store and the number of people allowed in at any one time.

Schools are, in all other situations, a known hotbed of viral transmission and even if, in general, younger people do not suffer such a potentially serious version of the virus they still have the capacity to take it home and trigger a new spike/second wave.

Obviously having a daughter who works in a primary school I have a personal concern for her welfare just as I would if she were a doctor, nurse or a supermarket worker. She was teaching half a class - thus giving social distancing a chance - throughout June and July with no apparent problem however, it is the prospect of teaching a full class - in accordance with Johnson’s ‘moral responsibility’ demands - that concerns me...not so much from a personal point of view but because the comparatively cramped conditions of most classrooms are the very conditions we are avoiding in all other buildings and are the conditions that are likely to encourage transmission of the virus which will then be taken home to parents, siblings and older family members.

As I said rA, other countries including Denmark have managed to return children to school, it can't be that difficult to come up with a plan that enables schools to reopen with as little risk as possible.

The Government will follow its usual line, which is to blame others for its mismanagement!