O/T. The Government's handling of Covid

[swaledale]

Except that the 55+ age group, which is the one most at risk, do not constitute ‘fearful old men’.

Any major epidemic/pandemic is most likely to at its most devastating where the old, the sick (those with underlying health conditions) and the poor are concerned...aka the most vulnerable.

For that reason I have to disagree with your 75 year old. He may be being very selfless, although one doesn’t know his situation, however if such sentiments were uttered by someone in their thirties or forties it could be interpreted as verging on the fascist.

P.S. Take your point MA...but I don’t accept that ‘cost effectiveness’ needs to be a factor where the vaccine is concerned. That precedent thankfully hasn’t been set where other illnesses are concerned.

Where do you get the 55+ age group from? WHO and government guidance states over 70's but every medical expert I've heard says that whilst age is a factor, the state of ones health is the biggest denominator.

The official figures on death rates are as follows:

In age groups up to and including 60-69, fewer than 1 in 1,000 people have died from coronavirus.
Age 70-79, it’s 2 in every 1,000 people.
Age 80-89, it’s 7 in every 1,000 people.
Age 90 and over, it’s 18 people in every 1,000 people.
Males have a higher risk in every age group than females.

Thats pretty good odds IF one is in a reasonable state of health.

Of course to properly assess the risk one would also need to compare the risk of death from other causes, BUT its estimated that deaths from cancer alone due to delayed treatment etc. will run into tens of thousands over the next couple of years.

By the way the 75 year old was a woman and not sure why you'd say it was fascist? If we are killing thousands in order to save thousands isn't that also fascist?

If we have completely ****ed the economy and the lives of hundreds of thousands of people of people whats that then?

I made my first visit to London yesterday, tubes and trains eerily quiet, mask wearing compliance good, fewer people on the streets but not noticeably so.

Mad its far too early to say whether the virus has mutated to a weaker strain, no medical expert I've spoken to or heard speak has said that is the case, more likely that the only people exposed have much more resistance to it, due to health or perhaps having gained some immunity.

I'm intrigued rA as to what your approach would be IF we don't get a vaccine? Do we suspend normal life for 18 months or longer?

Also where do you get the idea that cost effectiveness isn't a measure in developing vaccines or other health treatments? That has always been the case and would be with Covid-19, after all if a vaccine isn't very effective but costs millions to make and not using it would not cost those millions then its likely not to be implemented.

[MadAmster]

Where do you get the 55+ age group from?

Quite possibly from me Swale from one of my posts on the current situation in the Netherlands. Our government has been telling us for the past 3 or 4 weeks that a huge majority of new cases are U30s and the vast majority of hospitalisations are 55+.....

[ramAnag]

Where do you get the 55+ age group from? WHO and government guidance states over 70's but every medical expert I've heard says that whilst age is a factor, the state of ones health is the biggest denominator.

The official figures on death rates are as follows:

In age groups up to and including 60-69, fewer than 1 in 1,000 people have died from coronavirus.
Age 70-79, it’s 2 in every 1,000 people.
Age 80-89, it’s 7 in every 1,000 people.
Age 90 and over, it’s 18 people in every 1,000 people.
Males have a higher risk in every age group than females.

Thats pretty good odds IF one is in a reasonable state of health.

Of course to properly assess the risk one would also need to compare the risk of death from other causes, BUT its estimated that deaths from cancer alone due to delayed treatment etc. will run into tens of thousands over the next couple of years.

By the way the 75 year old was a woman and not sure why you'd say it was fascist? If we are killing thousands in order to save thousands isn't that also fascist?

If we have completely ****ed the economy and the lives of hundreds of thousands of people of people whats that then?

I made my first visit to London yesterday, tubes and trains eerily quiet, mask wearing compliance good, fewer people on the streets but not noticeably so.

Mad its far too early to say whether the virus has mutated to a weaker strain, no medical expert I've spoken to or heard speak has said that is the case, more likely that the only people exposed have much more resistance to it, due to health or perhaps having gained some immunity.

I'm intrigued rA as to what your approach would be IF we don't get a vaccine? Do we suspend normal life for 18 months or longer?

Also where do you get the idea that cost effectiveness isn't a measure in developing vaccines or other health treatments? That has always been the case and would be with Covid-19, after all if a vaccine isn't very effective but costs millions to make and not using it would not cost those millions then its likely not to be implemented.

Firstly, it makes no difference whether the person concerned was male or female, and I didn’t actually say she was ‘fascist’.
She may be very well intentioned or there may be circumstances we are unaware of which alter her perspective. Either way my suggestion was, if the same sentiments had been uttered by someone decades younger they could have been seen as ‘verging on the fascist’ via a kind of ‘Tomorrow belongs to me’ mentality.

It’s an unfortunate fact of life that, criminals apart, three groups within society are the least ‘cost effective’ and most expensive - the young, the old and the sick, but, imo, that doesn’t mean we should abandon concern for any of them.

There are times throughout history when different age groups suffer or benefit disproportionately. War is obviously the prime example when it is invariably young adult males who suffer the most but, at a much lower level, our generation could only dream of mortgage rates at the level they are for today’s thirty/forty somethings while my parents’ generation enjoyed savings rates that we, again, could only dream of. Luck of the draw really.

What do we do? Well, as you’ll probably agree, some joined up thought and proper leadership would make a nice change.
Where getting pupils back into school is concerned I’d like to see the provision of alternative buildings but of course nothing has been done about that throughout the ‘summer’ because the government appears to have gone awol and won’t wake up to the problem until September.
I’d like to see more thought from employers as regards accommodating the child care needs of employees which I understand is happening in Germany and I’d like to see a more ‘collective’ World response to the search for a vaccine rather than the sort of semi jingoistic competition which is currently going on and which may ultimately only result in even wealthier and more selfish drug companies.

Of course where we’ll agree and where MA’s call for ‘Revolution’ - in mind set at least - fits into all this, is that so long as 1% of the World’s population owns 50% of the World’s wealth then conditions for old and young alike (and probably all of us) are only likely to worsen in the short term as a result of this pandemic.