£10m for Bogle

[Geoff Parkstone]

Hmmm, Eddie Lewis springs to mind as justifiable criticism too, if I saw him on the teamsheet together with Gary Teale (apart for a few weeks purple patch that he had) the I knew defeat was not far away

[mistaram]

Quoth rA "I repeat...however frustrating the performance...is telling someone what a ‘****ing useless ****’ they are actually going to benefit the situation?"

Remember this next time you post on a political thread about how useless out PM is, or stand charged with double standards

Thought it was only RA who turned football threads into policalisation

[ramAnag]

Ah so it depends upon your individual assessment of a player then? Either your against fans expressing their disapproval of a player or your not. You can't justify certain players because in your opinion they didn't try! Because evryone could use that justification their views of which players weren't trying or were "lazy" being different of course!

For whats its worth I don't believe any player at championship level is "lazy" or doesn't try, any decent manager would'nt play them for a start!

The only reason I mention the wages they earn is that they get those for performing in front of an audience, it goes with the job!

As for targeting a player, well surely a manager has the gumption to take a badly performing player out of the firing line? But does it help to traget a player? Not sure it does, but then if they are consistently crap who can blame the paying punters for expressing their opinion?

Fair point again...although I didn’t actually say I approved of my own actions - which almost certainly went unheard - I just used the example of Kitson, Davis and Teale as being cases where my loss of patience was based on perceived lack of commitment rather than error.

I think we all know that there are players at every level of the game who give 100% and others who don’t. As an example...while I’ve never doubted Chris Martin’s skill, I did have regular misgivings about his attitude and commitment, and while I’d never doubt Martyn Waghorn’s commitment and effort I do have misgivings about his finishing skills. Personally I find it easier to forgive the latter.

Yes the wages go with the job, but does the fact that, for instance (and hypothetically) Kelle Roos gets paid £5k per week make jeering his errors any more helpful? We’ve all heard the sarcastic cheers from the South Stand, when Roos or Hamer have caught a cross cleanly. Regardless of what they earn does it help? Isn’t it just the home supporters equivalent of a ‘dodgy keeper’ chant which is, after all, designed to undermine opposition confidence?

[ramAnag]

Quoth rA "I repeat...however frustrating the performance...is telling someone what a ‘****ing useless ****’ they are actually going to benefit the situation?"

Remember this next time you post on a political thread about how useless out PM is, or stand charged with double standards

What bollux you do write sometimes!
A. How can you compare the split second and relatively unimportant mistakes of sport with the allegedly thought through and life changing strategies, policies and **** ups of politics?
B. I have a rule to try not say or write anything about anyone I wouldn’t say to their face. There is nothing I’ve written on here that I wouldn’t repeat in a face to face confrontation with any of the politicians - or forum contributors - whose views I’ve criticised.
C. Criticising a Government decision might just - especially judging by the number of current ‘U turns’ - lead to debate which changes minds. Criticising Ben Hamer for spilling a cross at a ***** moment is just stating the blindingly obvious.
D. As mista says...don’t blatantly mix football with politics and then accuse me of ‘double standards’.

[swaledale]

Hmmm, Eddie Lewis springs to mind as justifiable criticism too, if I saw him on the teamsheet together with Gary Teale (apart for a few weeks purple patch that he had) the I knew defeat was not far away

Ah yes steady Eddie a real premier league signing by the Wee man!

[swaledale]

Fair point again...although I didn’t actually say I approved of my own actions - which almost certainly went unheard - I just used the example of Kitson, Davis and Teale as being cases where my loss of patience was based on perceived lack of commitment rather than error.

I think we all know that there are players at every level of the game who give 100% and others who don’t. As an example...while I’ve never doubted Chris Martin’s skill, I did have regular misgivings about his attitude and commitment, and while I’d never doubt Martyn Waghorn’s commitment and effort I do have misgivings about his finishing skills. Personally I find it easier to forgive the latter.

Yes the wages go with the job, but does the fact that, for instance (and hypothetically) Kelle Roos gets paid £5k per week make jeering his errors any more helpful? We’ve all heard the sarcastic cheers from the South Stand, when Roos or Hamer have caught a cross cleanly. Regardless of what they earn does it help? Isn’t it just the home supporters equivalent of a ‘dodgy keeper’ chant which is, after all, designed to undermine opposition confidence?

I didn't say it would be helpful, just that if one is a professional footballer paid handsomely for it, if you so lacking confidence that the crowd can put you off your game then your not cut out for it! Perhaps try snooker instead?

Its been that way as long as I've been to games and its fans expressing their dissatisfaction with a players performance. Perhaps we should all just be silent? Only cheer when a player actually manages to do what their paid to do?

As for players not trying? I don't buy it, players ahve different skills and approaches to the game, I realise lots of fans only think a player is trying if they run about like a bloody rabbit, but some of the best players I've seen, hardly seem to be in a game, then pop up with a sublime pass which leads to a goal or are in the right place at the right time to score a goal.

Which would you rather have a player that on the face of it gave 100% every game, but on analysis hardly seemed to affect it, or one who you perceive to be lacking in effort but manages an assist or goal in the majority of games he plays?

[swaledale]

Quoth rA "I repeat...however frustrating the performance...is telling someone what a ‘****ing useless ****’ they are actually going to benefit the situation?"

Remember this next time you post on a political thread about how useless out PM is, or stand charged with double standards

WTF has this comment got to do with football? Anyway are you saying that Johnson isn't a lying, lazy, bumbling. clueless, philandering ****?

[AdiSalisbury]

I didn't say it would be helpful, just that if one is a professional footballer paid handsomely for it, if you so lacking confidence that the crowd can put you off your game then your not cut out for it! Perhaps try snooker instead?

Its been that way as long as I've been to games and its fans expressing their dissatisfaction with a players performance. Perhaps we should all just be silent? Only cheer when a player actually manages to do what their paid to do?

As for players not trying? I don't buy it, players ahve different skills and approaches to the game, I realise lots of fans only think a player is trying if they run about like a bloody rabbit, but some of the best players I've seen, hardly seem to be in a game, then pop up with a sublime pass which leads to a goal or are in the right place at the right time to score a goal.

Which would you rather have a player that on the face of it gave 100% every game, but on analysis hardly seemed to affect it, or one who you perceive to be lacking in effort but manages an assist or goal in the majority of games he plays?

Give me the skilled player any day. If you're gonna run around all game, it needs to make an impact, not be a headless chicken.

[ramAnag]

I didn't say it would be helpful, just that if one is a professional footballer paid handsomely for it, if you so lacking confidence that the crowd can put you off your game then your not cut out for it! Perhaps try snooker instead?

Its been that way as long as I've been to games and its fans expressing their dissatisfaction with a players performance. Perhaps we should all just be silent? Only cheer when a player actually manages to do what their paid to do?

As for players not trying? I don't buy it, players ahve different skills and approaches to the game, I realise lots of fans only think a player is trying if they run about like a bloody rabbit, but some of the best players I've seen, hardly seem to be in a game, then pop up with a sublime pass which leads to a goal or are in the right place at the right time to score a goal.

Which would you rather have a player that on the face of it gave 100% every game, but on analysis hardly seemed to affect it, or one who you perceive to be lacking in effort but manages an assist or goal in the majority of games he plays?

But part of the discussion, since Christie was introduced into it, has been about the influence of the crowd. Not all players are blessed with complete confidence and frankly there were times last season when our own fans were our own goalkeepers’ worst enemies. That can’t be right...or helpful.

Obviously not suggesting that fans should be silent...just that the ‘boo boy’ mentality is totally destructive. There’s a guy near me - used to be - who starts on Morgan Whittaker (and Cocu) as soon as he’s brought on. What’s the point? I’ve actually not been very impressed by Whittaker either...but how can repeatedly and loudly telling him how crap he is be anything but counter productive?

We’ll have to agree to disagree on the players not trying thing. You’re right...some players read the game so well they appear to need to make less effort while others - Jonny Russell springs to mind - get applauded for chasing lost causes which always seems fairly pointless to me.

Which would I prefer? The player who puts in a 100% effort and also plays that sublime pass or is in the right place at the right time...don’t see why it has to be either/or. I want a team full of both effort and ability.

[Oldtimeram]

Take the money and run I say