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Thread: Are the media biased

  1. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by mistaram View Post
    Pretty sure Tricky will agree with every word of that ��
    Lol...you reckon?
    Damned fine post though...I certainly do.

  2. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by swaledale View Post
    I really don't buy it, I think your perception is coloured by the predominate theme that is churned out by many media sources, a trope that is pushed by Government, the right wing establishment and its media, that somehow the left controls the cultural narrative.

    In the United Kingdom, the spectre of a Marxist takeover is also invoked across the right wing spectrum, including the current attorney general. Conservative commentators like to claim that the left in Britain “controls almost every institution”.

    “Control” cannot refer to representative government: winning elections and forming governments that promote leftwing principles and policies. It cannot mean that because, when it comes to political representation, the left in Britain has been in opposition for the best part of the last 100 years. Even in the few cases in which it succeeded in winning elections, it did so while relinquishing traditional leftwing commitments, promoting an image of itself as competent and pragmatic, neither right nor left.

    When the right claims that the “left is in control”, they know the left has no political or economic power, but claim that it nonetheless pervades society and culture.

    For the right, those who question the legacy of the empire or making efforts to decolonise university curriculums have created a situation in which “the very underpinnings of western liberal democracies are being subverted and destroyed”. Instead of asking why so many of the songs we sing, roads we walk down and statues we pass contain traces of an injustice whose legacy continues to shape the present, Conservative MPs are urged to be “the vanguard” of the opposition to the left’s “remorseless cancel culture”.

    But the left that has neither adequate political organisation (in both Britain and the US, the leading progressive parties, in opposition, are run by their centre or right factions) nor any kind of significant control over the economy to be culturally hegemonic. Ideas and discourses do not float in the air, they reflect wider societal patterns. The same ruling elites who shape politics and the economy also shape the intellectual debate.

    Look at the evidence, the economy is unthinkingly covered in much of the press from the point of view of asset owners, its large corporations who play a determining role in producing culture and the arts. The fantasy of leftwing hegemony in rightwing countries is not about principles, but tactics. Very successful ones, where many of those with little influence and control, thats around 94% of the population, are somehow convinced there is this left wing plot to subvert society, it feeds into the very real fears of people about changes to society, their lives and the ability to control their destiny.

    But instead of punching up and asking why it is that Britain's richest 1% have accumulated as much wealth as the poorest 55% of the population put together, why is the gap between rich and poor increasing, why jobs are more insecure and why an institution like the BBC is under threat, there is a "punching down" against immigrants, against changes in thought on injustice and disadvantage.

    By trying to realise the false notion that “national values” are at risk of disappearing at the hands of powerful leftists, the right can mobilise support for those in power – despite the sorry state of the economy or disastrous outcome of public policy.

    In short yes your being lied to, but not by some mysterious powerful left wing force, but by the right wing elite of this country who are pushing this theory so that you and others can completely ignore the fact that over the past decade, the rich have got richer, the poor have got poorer, health inequalities have widened, basic services have been cut, the amount the richest pay into the national pot has reduced, tax avoidance is a far greater loss to the economy than benefit fraud, society is less fair and corruption, money laundering and nepotism has increased.

    The very fact that you and others feel there is an issue about BAME representation in the media and entertainment demonstrates how successful this left wing conspiracy theory promoted by the right has been!
    Thanks for the reply but you have gone off at a left/right tangent, as I've said before we are beyond left and right on many issues now, Red Robbo is dead don't you know?

    I can't have been lied to Swale because the over-representation is something that is supported by the evidence of my own eyes, only then did I take (limited/qualified) notice of friends, acquaintances and (even more limited/qualified) notice of the social media plague pit, and then seek out trusted sources to confirm or contradict.

    I do note that you said you were going away to do some 'digging' before you got back, but the above seems a bit more quixotic than I was expecting.

    I did also have a think about defining the 'angle' I come from, which might help stop this back to the 70s left/right moolarky, and I'll go for 'a capitalist with a social conscience'. Now, what you've told us all about your revenue earning antics HAS to make you a capitalist (or at least a slave to capitalism) and other rants seem to indicate a social conscience, so we aren't to far apart in our POV are we? OK not blood brothers yet but we shouldn't be daggers drawn
    Last edited by Andy_Faber; 13-09-2020 at 05:52 PM.

  3. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy_Faber View Post
    Thanks for the reply but you have gone off at a left/right tangent, as I've said before we are beyond left and right on many issues now, Red Robbo is dead don't you know?

    I can't have been lied to Swale because the over-representation is something that is supported by the evidence of my own eyes, only then did I take (limited/qualified) notice of friends, acquaintances and (even more limited/qualified) notice of the social media plague pit, and then seek out trusted sources to confirm or contradict.

    I do note that you said you were going away to do some 'digging' before you got back, but the above seems a bit more quixotic than I was expecting.

    I did also have a think about defining the 'angle' I come from, which might help stop this back to the 70s left/right moolarky, and I'll go for 'a capitalist with a social conscience'. Now, what you've told us all about your revenue earning antics HAS to make you a capitalist (or at least a slave to capitalism) and other rants seem to indicate a social conscience, so we aren't to far apart in our POV are we? OK not blood brothers yet but we shouldn't be daggers drawn
    Hurrah...AF and Swale find common ground at last.

    You’re right...you two aren’t ‘so far apart’. So let the ‘Conscious Capitalism’ debate begin.

  4. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by ramAnag View Post
    Hurrah...AF and Swale find common ground at last.

    You’re right...you two aren’t ‘so far apart’. So let the ‘Conscious Capitalism’ debate begin.
    rA, I may not be as good at putting my point over as well as I hoped and I certainly don't want Swale and I (or you, or the other lucid types here) to actually agree on anything (that would be boring) but using the parable of the drowning Leeds fan (if you saw a Leeds fan drowning in the canal, would you pull him out - I think we all eventually answered yes) we ALL here have humanity, a (deeply hidden in some cases) social consciousness and mostly well thought through lines of argument.

  5. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy_Faber View Post
    Thanks for the reply but you have gone off at a left/right tangent, as I've said before we are beyond left and right on many issues now, Red Robbo is dead don't you know?

    I can't have been lied to Swale because the over-representation is something that is supported by the evidence of my own eyes, only then did I take (limited/qualified) notice of friends, acquaintances and (even more limited/qualified) notice of the social media plague pit, and then seek out trusted sources to confirm or contradict.

    I do note that you said you were going away to do some 'digging' before you got back, but the above seems a bit more quixotic than I was expecting.

    I did also have a think about defining the 'angle' I come from, which might help stop this back to the 70s left/right moolarky, and I'll go for 'a capitalist with a social conscience'. Now, what you've told us all about your revenue earning antics HAS to make you a capitalist (or at least a slave to capitalism) and other rants seem to indicate a social conscience, so we aren't to far apart in our POV are we? OK not blood brothers yet but we shouldn't be daggers drawn

    No you miss the point, its not that there is a left/right issue, its that its made out to be a left issue by the right. Now is suspect we aren't too far apart, except crucially on this issue because you clearly see "over representation" and I don't. In fact if you hadn't mentioned it, I wouldn't have thought of it! SO why is it such an issue for you?

    As I've said before, I don't give a toss as to the race or ***uality or other characteristic of who appears on the media as long as they do the job they are employed to do well. But then maybe I'm more relaxed about so called "multiculturalism" than you?

    Also in your posts you trot out "the PC Brigade", that the BBC has shows packed full of left wing comedians (that was a red herring printed in the Torygraph) and other similar phrases which one sees regularly in the right wing media.

    You mentioned the so called banning of "Rule |Britannia" being sung, but that story was in the Times, which linked it to the BBC being a cultural revisionist, when in point of fact it was nothing of the sort - the reality was that it was considered difficult to perform it sung with a full vocal section due to Covid-19 social distancing requirements. Yet it was spun by right wing commentators into a BBC bashing exercise and then repeated by many as a "truth". One could criticise the decision and say well it could be sung with less people as it eventually was, but people make decisions. The attachment of a meaning to that decision was by the right wing media and thats a constant.

    Now there is no such thing as the PC Brigade, I'll grant you there are individuals, even groups of individuals that take the concept of equality and fairness to extremes, just as there are people who interpret health and safety laws to an extent that nobody would do anything, or people who are anal about any subject or regulation or people who just love exercising what they perceive as power (even if its largely illusory power) and I've had my share of having to deal with such irritating ****s, but on the whole the majority of people aren't like that.

    The media (on both left and right) likes to simplify things, label people. So for instance we have Asians demonised for pedophilia when its a small percentage that engage in such activities and no greater percentage than white people, who include a number of previously well respected and famous people among their number. I mean how long did Saville get away with his activities? In plain sight? How many Christian clergy (both Catholic and Anglican) have been involved in such activities and ignored or overlooked both by the Police and church authorities?

    These aren't left or right issues, they are not even political, they are examples whereby the race or ethnicity of the perpetrators is irrelevant, in all cases the proper authorities were either slow to act or actually did not act. In one instance it may have been because of fear of being branded racist (although if one looks in detail at the cases it was more that the victims, poor troubled white girls in most cases were not taken seriously by the Police and other authorities or were considered to be "complicit" in the activities. Yet to listen and read some media reports and some posters, one would get the impression it was purely down to race and was an "Asian problem" which is far from the truth, but it suits the narrative that certain people wish to promote.


    To answer your other query, I live and operate in a capitalist system, as far as is possible I try to avoid dealing or working with people or organisations who I consider "dodgy" and indeed I've turned down work in certain circumstances where I would definitely not want to be associated with the firm or person. BUT its impossible to do that in all cases and I'm lucky I have been able to make a choice.

    What I do know is neither capitalism or socialism actually works or could work as the purists claim, capitalism relies on the state for any number of services and infrastructure, without which it would not function whilst pure socialism is always corrupted by power.

    The fact is human beings are both paradoxical and contradictory - we insist on the truth but don't like it if it doesn't fit with what we perceive!
    Last edited by swaledale; 13-09-2020 at 10:12 PM.

  6. #136
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    Andy, the L**ds fan conundrum is a hard one to answer. What's the humane course of action? a) pull hihm out and save his life OR b) leave him be and put hm out of his misery?

    Joking apart, depsite my previous experiences with prime examples of Leedus Neanderthalis, I'd pull him out and I believe (and hope) everybody else on here would as well.

    Swale, there are indeed many things which aren't or shouldn't be, left or right. They are simply correct. Clean air. Clean water. Those are 2 examples of things that cannot and should not be politicised. They are a necessity and should be a basic right although (apologies if I've targeted the wrong firm here) Nestlé seem to disagree. Osceola, Michigan being one example of what some might call greed. There are other cases where companies have done things that use up all the clean water and leave local residents with water that is less than clean.
    Last edited by MadAmster; 14-09-2020 at 06:40 AM.

  7. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy_Faber View Post
    rA, I may not be as good at putting my point over as well as I hoped and I certainly don't want Swale and I (or you, or the other lucid types here) to actually agree on anything (that would be boring) but using the parable of the drowning Leeds fan (if you saw a Leeds fan drowning in the canal, would you pull him out - I think we all eventually answered yes) we ALL here have humanity, a (deeply hidden in some cases) social consciousness and mostly well thought through lines of argument.
    Not agree on everything, AF...debate and constructive disagreement is healthy...but good to see two of the forum’s ‘heavyweights’ not knocking lumps off each other.

    We may ‘ALL here have humanity’...in all honesty I can’t agree everyone has a well developed ‘social consciousness’.

    As for the ‘drowning Leeds fan’, of course I too would pull him out...I mean, we need to keep our canals clear...and it’s not as if he’s a Millwall supporting Brexiteer.

  8. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by ramAnag View Post
    Not agree on everything, AF...debate and constructive disagreement is healthy...but good to see two of the forum’s ‘heavyweights’ not knocking lumps off each other.

    We may ‘ALL here have humanity’...in all honesty I can’t agree everyone has a well developed ‘social consciousness’.

    As for the ‘drowning Leeds fan’, of course I too would pull him out...I mean, we need to keep our canals clear...and it’s not as if he’s a Millwall supporting Brexiteer.
    Even a Millwall supporting Brexiteer should be helped out if drowning, and then helped to recover in a French cafe, run by a gay couple of Moroccan heritage!

  9. #139
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    And given restorative rosehip tissane with some organic vegan quiche

  10. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by swaledale View Post
    Even a Millwall supporting Brexiteer should be helped out if drowning, and then helped to recover in a French cafe, run by a gay couple of Moroccan heritage!
    You’re too kind, Swale. Words not often heard on here...but then I also heard Trump talking about ‘Forest management’ this morning and hadn’t expected that either.

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