After calling for

[islaydarkblue]

i joined the Scottish National Party in 1965 when Arthur Donaldson, {Dundee born }was the leader.
i always dreamt that one day we would become The Republic of Scotland.
i never kept up my membership, but myself and many others continued to vote for SNP candidates that would not be elected,
but this helped to raise the profile of the party to where it is today.
i have many friends who are active with the SNP, but i have become disillusioned with the SNP.
I have a few gripes, but the main two are,-....
i do not see the point of becoming independent, then being dictated by the EU.
The one that upsets me most is the LOCAL INCOME TAX which was in the 2009 manifesto, at last we had politicians thinking outside the box. then after talks with other parties they reneged on the policy.
the local income tax was a fair proportional tax which was based on your income.
now forevermore we have a property tax that is based on the value of your house and your area, your income or ability to pay is not considered.

Are you aware that Arthur Donaldson was interred during the Second World War because it was believed that hewas a Nazi sympathiser https://infogalactic.com/info/Arthur_Donaldson
He was also Editor of the Forfar Despatch newspaper.
In my opinion including Local Income Tax to replace the Council Tax in the 2009:SNP manifesto was a con to try to get votes
The SNP leaders had never worked out the cost of a Local Income Tax and how it would be implemented in each Council area.
This simple solution is to replace the council tax with a local sales tax. If theyncan have a local sales tax in America surely it cannot be beyond the Scottish Parliament MSPs to introduce a local sales tax in Scotland especially as 76% of the total council tax expenditure is paid by the Scottish Government thanks to bloc grant from Westminster.

[Deeranged]

Are you aware that Arthur Donaldson was interred during the Second World War because it was believed that hewas a Nazi sympathiser https://infogalactic.com/info/Arthur_Donaldson
He was also Editor of the Forfar Despatch newspaper.
In my opinion including Local Income Tax to replace the Council Tax in the 2009:SNP manifesto was a con to try to get votes
The SNP leaders had never worked out the cost of a Local Income Tax and how it would be implemented in each Council area.
This simple solution is to replace the council tax with a local sales tax. If theyncan have a local sales tax in America surely it cannot be beyond the Scottish Parliament MSPs to introduce a local sales tax in Scotland especially as 76% of the total council tax expenditure is paid by the Scottish Government thanks to bloc grant from Westminster.

Do they have local sales tax in Holland? If not surely the EU wouldn't allow an independent Scotland, within the EU, to apply this form of taxation?

[islaydarkblue]

When I studied economics in the late 60's one of the topics was how to collect local taxes so that there was an element t of local accountability. Local rates for sales tax, this was before vat, and local income tax were 2 popular options. When we went through all the problems that both these alternative options created a tax based on where you lived was the most difficult to avoid and the simplest and cheapest to administer. There are problems with falling income in old age and the likelihood that the value of the property is high with high counc il tax rates but local sales taxes and local income tax seemed to provide so many ways to cheat or manipulate your taxes that what we have as a local property tax seems sensible.
Better to change the people in charge than change the basis of taxation IMO.

Hi BCram.
Another solution would be for everyone to pay for core services in their council area but anyone requiring non core services such as Education or Personal Care which now comes under the control of the Local Authorities would have to pay for it themselves.
People who cannot afford to pay for these services including non core services would have them paid for them in a similar way to people who do not pay council tax due to their lack of income.
However there are plenty of people who can well afford to pay for non core services which they use.
The Council Tax is a tax on trying to better yourself.

[Returnofrros]

When I studied economics in the late 60's one of the topics was how to collect local taxes so that there was an element t of local accountability. Local rates for sales tax, this was before vat, and local income tax were 2 popular options. When we went through all the problems that both these alternative options created a tax based on where you lived was the most difficult to avoid and the simplest and cheapest to administer. There are problems with falling income in old age and the likelihood that the value of the property is high with high counc il tax rates but local sales taxes and local income tax seemed to provide so many ways to cheat or manipulate your taxes that what we have as a local property tax seems sensible.
Better to change the people in charge than change the basis of taxation IMO.

Poll tax (with 100% rebates available) far more appealing the rates or council tax but I prefer local income tax.

Funny, independence nobody said would be easy but they are happy to crack on with that.

Local income tax which isn't even in the same universe as independence when it comes to complexity.....is too complicated.🙄

For me it's nothing to do with age or that I just don't think property prices should be used as a basis for local taxation.

Oh and I'm not someone who gets too upset about the amount I'm paying.....band D with 25% rebate......but I just think it's an unfair system.

[Returnofrros]

Hi BCram.
Another solution would be for everyone to pay for core services in their council area but anyone requiring non core services such as Education or Personal Care which now comes under the control of the Local Authorities would have to pay for it themselves.
People who cannot afford to pay for these services including non core services would have them paid for them in a similar way to people who do not pay council tax due to their lack of income.
However there are plenty of people who can well afford to pay for non core services which they use.
The Council Tax is a tax on trying to better yourself.

Agree with most of that, I'd take out personal care, should always be free imho.

[BCram]

Are you aware that Arthur Donaldson was interred during the Second World War because it was believed that hewas a Nazi sympathiser https://infogalactic.com/info/Arthur_Donaldson
He was also Editor of the Forfar Despatch newspaper.
In my opinion including Local Income Tax to replace the Council Tax in the 2009:SNP manifesto was a con to try to get votes
The SNP leaders had never worked out the cost of a Local Income Tax and how it would be implemented in each Council area.
This simple solution is to replace the council tax with a local sales tax. If theyncan have a local sales tax in America surely it cannot be beyond the Scottish Parliament MSPs to introduce a local sales tax in Scotland especially as 76% of the total council tax expenditure is paid by the Scottish Government thanks to bloc grant from Westminster.

Local sales tax works if there are large distances between the centres of population For the central belt in Scoland there would be little chance of any element of variety. Residential areas would have little or no income so how would you compensate them. Retail centres like Edinburgh might find that instead of edge of town retail parks retailers moved to new hitherto uneploited areas where the sales tax was lower.
If you managed to buy a house when other you and your wife were working you could afford the mortgage. Now you are paying the equivalent amount in council tax, I think.

[deecom]

Are you aware that Arthur Donaldson was interred during the Second World War because it was believed that hewas a Nazi sympathiser https://infogalactic.com/info/Arthur_Donaldson
He was also Editor of the Forfar Despatch newspaper.
In my opinion including Local Income Tax to replace the Council Tax in the 2009:SNP manifesto was a con to try to get votes
The SNP leaders had never worked out the cost of a Local Income Tax and how it would be implemented in each Council area.
This simple solution is to replace the council tax with a local sales tax. If theyncan have a local sales tax in America surely it cannot be beyond the Scottish Parliament MSPs to introduce a local sales tax in Scotland especially as 76% of the total council tax expenditure is paid by the Scottish Government thanks to bloc grant from Westminster.

i was aware Donaldsons history and others.
no British government allowed any local authority to take in a local income tax, when we were given a Scottish Parliament,that all changed.
people in SCOTLAND were complaining about the high cost of the rates system, so the tories gave us the poll tax.
my friend in Manchester, who had a similar house to mine was paying about half of what i was paying,because their rates system had not been reviewed for a long time.
when LABOUR came in power in scotland after the poll tax they had a chance to change the system, but apart from
renaming to council tax, they did nothing hence status quo.
like i said previously,politicians cannot think outside the box, so we will always have a rates,or property tax, call it what you will, but it is an unfair system, the poll tax was fairer than what we have now.

[Returnofrros]

i was aware Donaldsons history and others.
no British government allowed any local authority to take in a local income tax, when we were given a Scottish Parliament,that all changed.
people in SCOTLAND were complaining about the high cost of the rates system, so the tories gave us the poll tax.
my friend in Manchester, who had a similar house to mine was paying about half of what i was paying,because their rates system had not been reviewed for a long time.
when LABOUR came in power in scotland after the poll tax they had a chance to change the system, but apart from
renaming to council tax, they did nothing hence status quo.
like i said previously,politicians cannot think outside the box, so we will always have a rates,or property tax, call it what you will, but it is an unfair system, the poll tax was fairer than what we have now.

Now don't spout common sense on here.

[islaydarkblue]

i was aware Donaldsons history and others.
no British government allowed any local authority to take in a local income tax, when we were given a Scottish Parliament,that all changed.
people in SCOTLAND were complaining about the high cost of the rates system, so the tories gave us the poll tax.
my friend in Manchester, who had a similar house to mine was paying about half of what i was paying,because their rates system had not been reviewed for a long time.
when LABOUR came in power in scotland after the poll tax they had a chance to change the system, but apart from
renaming to council tax, they did nothing hence status quo.
like i said previously,politicians cannot think outside the boso we will always have a rates,or property tax, call it what you will, but it is an unfair system, the poll tax was fairer than what we have now.

Hi deecom.
The correct name for the poll tax was the Community Charge.
The Community Charge was introduced in Scotland because there had been a rates revaluation and the local councils took the opportunity to put through a huge rates increase blaming the rates revaluation for the increase. Home owners throughout Scotland were not as gullible as the local councillors thought they were and they kicked up a fuss resulting in the Community Charge being introduced.
My wife had a relative who lived in a Dundee council owned multi in Dundee.
My wife’s relative told me that the rates increase would not affect her as she only paid rent.
I explained that included in her rent payment to Dundee City Council was a payment for the rates on her flat.
She got a shock when she had to pay a large increase in the rent for her flat in the multi thanks to huge increase in the rates.
In my opinion the Community Charge was a lot fairer as everyone who was working or retired contributed whereas the rates scheme was based on the rateable value of the property you lived in.
Why should four adults living in a house pay the rates as a similarhouse owned by a retired person with a greatly reduced income. It was not fair but as usual the people who had never paid rates complained bitterly resulting in protest marches.
The silent majority said nothing and unfortunately the mouthy minority got the Community Charge scrapped and replaced by the Council Tax.
After that I changed tact.
Prior to the 2014 Scottish Independence Referendum I wrote letters to the local newspaper on Islay explaining the perils of Scotland becoming an independent country.
The White Paper produced by the SNP controlled Scottish Government at great expense telling everyone throughout Scotland that leaving the U.K. would be wonderful turned out to be a ‘Wish List’ instead of proven facts.
My SNP MSP Michael Russell belated confirmed that everything listed in the White Paper would never have happened in an independent Scotland.

[islaydarkblue]

Local sales tax works if there are large distances between the centres of population For the central belt in Scoland there would be little chance of any element of variety. Residential areas would have little or no income so how would you compensate them. Retail centres like Edinburgh might find that instead of edge of town retail parks retailers moved to new hitherto uneploited areas where the sales tax was lower.
If you managed to buy a house when other you and your wife were working you could afford the mortgage. Now you are paying the equivalent amount in council tax, I think.

Not necessarily.
People who live in Birkhill and Muirhead doing their shopping in Dundee would be contributing to the Dundee Council services through a local sales tax.
At present people living in Muirhead and Birkhill pay a lower council tax living in the Angus Council area.
If the Birkhill and Muirhead residents wanted to ensure that their local sales tax payment goes to Angus Council they would have to do their shopping in the Angus Council area.
The same goes for people living in Invergowrie. They can travel to Perth for their shopping as Invergowrie is in the Perth and Kinross Council area.