If only sturgeon Johnson swinney and hancock

[Returnofrros]

Flu jags for the under 65’s is a new phenomenon introduced by Nippy this year.
I remember reading that the over 65’s will be inoculated first with the under 65’s being inoculated in a second spell.
However if Nippy introduces a four week lockdown the winter flu season for 2020-21 might be nearly over by the time all the under 65’s receive their flu jag.

You need a vaccine 1st and then a 'booster every 6 mths, vaccine is a smokescreen.

[Returnofrros]

Be I teresti g if flu drops down because of the measures taken to combat covid.

A week or two back they had flu deaths at 300 or something.....nobody dies of flu anymore it's all covid.🙄

[islaydarkblue]

You need a vaccine 1st and then a 'booster every 6 mths, vaccine is a smokescreen.

I have received my flu jag every autumn with no booster.
The problem with all these vaccines is that we lose our immunity to diseases and if there is another disease such as Covid-19 then were are stuffed.
When I was a child I never received the MMR vaccine as it had not been developed and available for mass vaccination but I managed to survive despite getting both measles and mumps in the same year at primary school.
This is the problem with the Nanny State. Nobody is allowed to think for themselves as politicians want to control everything we do even if it is the wrong way.

[troodee1893]

Had went the Swedish way.

Pity.

Not really the answer tho

Sweden 10x death rate of Norway & Finland and marginally worse impact on economy (8.3%)

Expectation of herd immunity not working out prediction of 40% of adults have anti bodies is actually only 6%

40% of deaths have been in care homes so plan to protect vulnerable not been effective

I agree with some of the comments about us overreacting and I strongly think a UK wide approach would have been better that the fragmented mess to date. I also think we could have done a lot of things better. What I don't see is the idea that Sweden is somehow a shining light in the way to deal with Covid. As Dayster points out Sweden's comparison all along should be with it's neighbouring sparsely
populated countries. A much better comparison in the case of the UK would be to compare Sweden with the North of Scotland or Devon & Cornwall. Sweden has a population of only a seventh of the UK therefore their 6 thousand deaths and on a straight population comparison basis would equate to 42 thousand, almost as high as the UK total. The UK has many very large cities in comparison with Sweden which has only a few. The further comparison is that Sweden's land area is almost twice that of the UK meaning that the already smaller population is spread out even further. One thing that the scientists actually DO know is that the density of the populace has an inordinate effect on the transmission rate meaning that the doubling of the land area has a much higher than doubling effect on the Covid numbers. This 'could' mean that the incidence in Sweden would equate to 2 or 3 times the 42 thousand figure that comes from a straight population to population comparison. There is therefore, at least, a credible argument that Sweden has fared worse than the UK from the numbers of deaths point of view.

I wholly accept the argument that Sweden are where they are without having to 'shackle' their citizens and leaving their economy in ruins but in recent days their own government has started to ramp up restrictions and describe the outlook for Sweden as dire and dangerous. Furthermore a lot of the restrictions forced upon us have been voluntarily taken up by the Swedes so it is not altogether a case of them having a completely restriction free life.

Once again I have many disagreements with the way the UK and Scottish governments have dealt with Covid. At times I even have an element of sympathy with them because much of the time criticism of them comes from both sides of arguments, some thinking they are not doing enough or are too lenient others thinking that they are too strict and over the top.

When making comparisons we should be judged against France and Spain where we are broadly similar in our shortcomings, Germany who have dealt with Covid much better than us and perhaps even S. Korea from whom I think lessons could have been learned to an enormous extent. But Sweden no, I am not saying they have got it wrong, just not right to the extent that they are held up as an example of all that is good in dealing with Covid.

[Returnofrros]

I agree with some of the comments about us overreacting and I strongly think a UK wide approach would have been better that the fragmented mess to date. I also think we could have done a lot of things better. What I don't see is the idea that Sweden is somehow a shining light in the way to deal with Covid. As Dayster points out Sweden's comparison all along should be with it's neighbouring sparsely
populated countries. A much better comparison in the case of the UK would be to compare Sweden with the North of Scotland or Devon & Cornwall. Sweden has a population of only a seventh of the UK therefore their 6 thousand deaths and on a straight population comparison basis would equate to 42 thousand, almost as high as the UK total. The UK has many very large cities in comparison with Sweden which has only a few. The further comparison is that Sweden's land area is almost twice that of the UK meaning that the already smaller population is spread out even further. One thing that the scientists actually DO know is that the density of the populace has an inordinate effect on the transmission rate meaning that the doubling of the land area has a much higher than doubling effect on the Covid numbers. This 'could' mean that the incidence in Sweden would equate to 2 or 3 times the 42 thousand figure that comes from a straight population to population comparison. There is therefore, at least, a credible argument that Sweden has fared worse than the UK from the numbers of deaths point of view.

I wholly accept the argument that Sweden are where they are without having to 'shackle' their citizens and leaving their economy in ruins but in recent days their own government has started to ramp up restrictions and describe the outlook for Sweden as dire and dangerous. Furthermore a lot of the restrictions forced upon us have been voluntarily taken up by the Swedes so it is not altogether a case of them having a completely restriction free life.

Once again I have many disagreements with the way the UK and Scottish governments have dealt with Covid. At times I even have an element of sympathy with them because much of the time criticism of them comes from both sides of arguments, some thinking they are not doing enough or are too lenient others thinking that they are too strict and over the top.

When making comparisons we should be judged against France and Spain where we are broadly similar in our shortcomings, Germany who have dealt with Covid much better than us and perhaps even S. Korea from whom I think lessons could have been learned to an enormous extent. But Sweden no, I am not saying they have got it wrong, just not right to the extent that they are held up as an example of all that is good in dealing with Covid.

Sweden is more populated like UK, density of the country, nothing like as sparse as Norway Denmark.

It's like comparing Scottish deaths to the faroes.

Norway and Denmark dosent count the same way as Sweden who more or less count same as UK.

Under the Ferguson model Sweden should have 60k dead.......that's how far out the modelling is the UK is following.

[troodee1893]

Sweden is more populated like UK, density of the country, nothing like as sparse as Norway Denmark.

It's like comparing Scottish deaths to the faroes.

Norway and Denmark dosent count the same way as Sweden who more or less count same as UK.

Under the Ferguson model Sweden should have 60k dead.......that's how far out the modelling is the UK is following.

You are way off in your comparisons. Sweden is far far more like Norway than Britain. Norway with 5 million residents spread around 148k sq miles is very similar to Sweden a little larger at 173k sq miles and a population of 10 million but the UK has a land area only a little over half the size of Sweden but with a population of 67 million almost seven times as much.

The population density of the three countries are as follows

Norway 38 residents per square mile
Sweden 64 residents per square mile
UK 1010 residents per square mile - this is a population density 16 times that of Sweden.

For the record The Faroes are c 90 residents per square mile. Scotland is at 170 per square mile (within this however Glasgow council has 8200 per square mile and the Highlands council only 21 per square mile).

I agree with much of your take on the covid pandemic but on this you are way off the mark. Sweden has a completely different population density and therefore covid 'footprint' than the UK and very much in line with its neighbours Norway and Finland (39 p Sq Mile).

[Returnofrros]

You are way off in your comparisons. Sweden is far far more like Norway than Britain. Norway with 5 million residents spread around 148k sq miles is very similar to Sweden a little larger at 173k sq miles and a population of 10 million but the UK has a land area only a little over half the size of Sweden but with a population of 67 million almost seven times as much.

The population density of the three countries are as follows

Norway 38 residents per square mile
Sweden 64 residents per square mile
UK 1010 residents per square mile - this is a population density 16 times that of Sweden.

For the record The Faroes are c 90 residents per square mile. Scotland is at 170 per square mile (within this however Glasgow council has 8200 per square mile and the Highlands council only 21 per square mile).

I agree with much of your take on the covid pandemic but on this you are way off the mark. Sweden has a completely different population density and therefore covid 'footprint' than the UK and very much in line with its neighbours Norway and Finland (39 p Sq Mile).

Sure I read Sweden had 4 or 5 cities bigger than Dundee, Norway or Denmark 1 or 3 each.

And Swedes have a much bigger bame population......I'll let you check, trust you to be accurate.

The main point I like the Swedish way is they have trusted their population, everyone kept their liberty and they held up their hands straight away about care homes.

This has just been a total overreaction in the UK and especially Scotland.

They have manipulated the figs from day 1 and the two ghouls Whitty and Vallance are getting away with spouting absolute drivel.

Recap 1.5 mill dead 70% of over 70s hospitalised.

Lowered to half a mill deid.

NHS overun.....was never happening

4000 dead a day by mid November even though rates in the north west were already levelling out.

Pandemic was over in April.

Covid will be here for years.

All imho.😁

[BCram]

[url]https://capx.co/in-a-big-city-pandemic-comparing-countries-has-limited-value.
This might help your discussion. Cities seem to be the key to the higher number of deaths.

[troodee1893]

Sure I read Sweden had 4 or 5 cities bigger than Dundee, Norway or Denmark 1 or 3 each.

And Swedes have a much bigger bame population......I'll let you check, trust you to be accurate.

The main point I like the Swedish way is they have trusted their population, everyone kept their liberty and they held up their hands straight away about care homes.

This has just been a total overreaction in the UK and especially Scotland.

They have manipulated the figs from day 1 and the two ghouls Whitty and Vallance are getting away with spouting absolute drivel.

Recap 1.5 mill dead 70% of over 70s hospitalised.

Lowered to half a mill deid.

NHS overun.....was never happening

4000 dead a day by mid November even though rates in the north west were already levelling out.

Pandemic was over in April.

Covid will be here for years.

All imho.😁

As I said before I agree with a lot maybe most of what you write. You are right Sweden have 4 cities larger than Dundee. The UK have 47 cities larger than Dundee. If you take a standard figure of cities with say 100,000 residents Sweden have 9, the UK 84. I don't know about the BAME numbers other than the UK figure is 13%. Sweden do not publish such a figure but state that 20% of their population are non Swedish. This is not like for like but Sweden does have a lot of other Scandinavians living in the country. I cant prove it but think it unlikely that they have a larger BAME population but I may well be wrong!

[BCram]

Sure I read Sweden had 4 or 5 cities bigger than Dundee, Norway or Denmark 1 or 3 each.

And Swedes have a much bigger bame population......I'll let you check, trust you to be accurate.

The main point I like the Swedish way is they have trusted their population, everyone kept their liberty and they held up their hands straight away about care homes.

This has just been a total overreaction in the UK and especially Scotland.

They have manipulated the figs from day 1 and the two ghouls Whitty and Vallance are getting away with spouting absolute drivel.

Recap 1.5 mill dead 70% of over 70s hospitalised.

Lowered to half a mill deid.

NHS overun.....was never happening

4000 dead a day by mid November even though rates in the north west were already levelling out.

Pandemic was over in April.

Covid will be here for years.

All imho.😁

Whitty and Valance are the spokesmen. There is a whole bunch of them working out the figures and the Independent SAGE committee is full of people who want even tougher actions. It will be a surprise to me if the second wave exceeds the first wave because we have much better treatments, we have learned something, we won't repeat the Care Home fiasco, and those who are vulnerable will look out for themselves. Panic about some hospitals at 84 % capacity is a bit rich when normal winter capacity can be 95%.