OT Trump prematurely ejaculates

[Andy_Faber]

Liberal is one of those words with dual meaning in today's usage. Either the complimentary or derisory usage. It's just how attitudes change and language usage modifies to reflect it. In the 60s it was a positive to be called Liberal by your contemporaries, now its more pejorative.

What used to be a compliment becomes ironically an insult. Not unlike how the N word is now used in black parlance, but in reverse. Its an interesting evolutionary study: consider the word gay in the 50s and now. Meaning has been re cycled by the generations. On a similar note swear words escalate - damn and blast was inappropriate before the ladies in the 50s, nowadays said ladies happily use the F and C word in public.

Wonder how we will swear in the 2050s?

Its become fashionable in one of the friendship groups Mrs F and I skirted round pre-lockdown to use the C word in conversation (mainly used by women) and Mrs F has decided over lockdown that its now an ex-friendship group. But in ten years it may be common parlance, who knows?

[ramAnag]

Neither liberal nor snowflake cover the behaviours I'm talking about and the closest word that truly sums such folk up is bigot, but even thats not quite hitting the spot - I'm taking about folk who can, for instance (and there are many) demonise the USA 'gun lobby' yet deny the fact that the vast majority of gun related deaths in USA are black on black (I just picked that as an example)

Genuinely puzzled by what behaviours you are talking about. The terms ‘liberal’ and ‘snowflake’ used to be synonymous with enlightenment.
Still usually are imo...no idea what they have to do with bigotry...unless opposing bigotry has now itself confusingly become an example of bigotry.

Why would people deny the fact that the ‘vast majority of gun related deaths in USA are black on black’ if that is indeed the case, and what has that got to do with ‘demonising the gun lobby’ anyway or are you now defending the ‘gun lobby’?

[Geoff Parkstone]

I remember going to New Orleans on business many moons ago, then one of the gun crime capitals of USA. Was talking about if with cab driver as we crossed lake ponchatrain. He was unconcerned, it didn't worry him as it was all black on black crime (although he phrased it less subtly) so he felt perfectly safe.

As for Liberal equating to enlightenment, I think things have moved on past that. Only the enlightened liberals see themselves as enlightened. I suspect most people therefore see them as over enlightened by and large.

[Ram59]

Whilst not wishing to go down the American road of general gun ownership, is there any evidence that the 'gun lobby' actually use their guns for illegal means?

The reason I ask is that I used to own a gun and used it for sporting purposes under strict control, shooting at paper targets, until a kneejerk reaction from the tory government, after a couple of incidents, forced us to give up our sport. The result of this action doesn't appear to have had any effect in reducing the number of illegal guns available in this country.

[Andy_Faber]

Genuinely puzzled by what behaviours you are talking about. The terms ‘liberal’ and ‘snowflake’ used to be synonymous with enlightenment.
Still usually are imo...no idea what they have to do with bigotry...unless opposing bigotry has now itself confusingly become an example of bigotry.

Why would people deny the fact that the ‘vast majority of gun related deaths in USA are black on black’ if that is indeed the case, and what has that got to do with ‘demonising the gun lobby’ anyway or are you now defending the ‘gun lobby’?

Sorry I didn't explain myself well obviously. Ive described the behaviour with the example I've given and I'm saying that use of the word 'liberal' (or for that matter snowflake) in their traditional definition is NOT the right word, and even bigot isn't, so I'm stuck for an appropriate one. To put it at its simplistic, I'm looking for the word that defines someone who will criticises one demographic for something yet excuse another

[Andy_Faber]

Whilst not wishing to go down the American road of general gun ownership, is there any evidence that the 'gun lobby' actually use their guns for illegal means?

The reason I ask is that I used to own a gun and used it for sporting purposes under strict control, shooting at paper targets, until a kneejerk reaction from the tory government, after a couple of incidents, forced us to give up our sport. The result of this action doesn't appear to have had any effect in reducing the number of illegal guns available in this country.

that was sort of the point I was making Ram, the stats show that USA gun OWNERSHIP is massively skewed towards caucasians, gun USE for unlawful means is massively skewed towards non-caucasians (and to be fair non-Hispanics).

[ramAnag]

Whilst not wishing to go down the American road of general gun ownership, is there any evidence that the 'gun lobby' actually use their guns for illegal means?

The reason I ask is that I used to own a gun and used it for sporting purposes under strict control, shooting at paper targets, until a kneejerk reaction from the tory government, after a couple of incidents, forced us to give up our sport. The result of this action doesn't appear to have had any effect in reducing the number of illegal guns available in this country.

I suspect that’s not the point, Ram. I doubt people object to gun ownership by responsible individuals for sporting purposes, but the 2nd Amendment together with the historic gun culture of the US have created a scenario where, imo, the necessary checks etc have been sacrificed on the altar of the right to carry arms being enshrined in their culture.
The number of and easy availability of guns and ammunition in the States inevitably leads to there being more incidents of gun crime and atrocities such as Columbine and Sandy Hook imo.

[ramAnag]

Sorry I didn't explain myself well obviously. Ive described the behaviour with the example I've given and I'm saying that use of the word 'liberal' (or for that matter snowflake) in their traditional definition is NOT the right word, and even bigot isn't, so I'm stuck for an appropriate one. To put it at its simplistic, I'm looking for the word that defines someone who will criticises one demographic for something yet excuse another

Selective? But, and it may be my fault, I still don’t quite get your point.
I imagine you might use it in relation to the summer demonstrations where you may have interpreted the BLM supporters being ‘recognised’ in a quite different way from their right wing opponents.
Where gun crime in the US is concerned the ‘fact’ - if you are able to substantiate it as such - that the majority of perpetrators and victims may be black is surely a side issue to the question of whether there are too many guns to which access is too easy.
I know you’ll argue that this is just the media skewing things, but ALL the automatic and semi automatic carrying ‘people’ I saw on TV standing on the City Hall steps and the like in the ‘flyover states’ were white.

[swaledale]

I remember going to New Orleans on business many moons ago, then one of the gun crime capitals of USA. Was talking about if with cab driver as we crossed lake ponchatrain. He was unconcerned, it didn't worry him as it was all black on black crime (although he phrased it less subtly) so he felt perfectly safe.

As for Liberal equating to enlightenment, I think things have moved on past that. Only the enlightened liberals see themselves as enlightened. I suspect most people therefore see them as over enlightened by and large.

The attack on the meaning of liberal is from certain quarters, its fashionable for certain media ad other groups to pour scorn om people who question established beliefs, behaviours and actions. Fortunately society moves on and whilst it may take a time those who wish to live in the past will be left behind moaning and groaning, generally it seems on the internet!

I guess it depends upon what you mean by enlightened? And WTF is meant by over enlightened? Makes no sense to me. Having a liberal viewpoint, is to be encouraged? Why on earth would a sensible person not want to have a liberal viewpoint?

[Andy_Faber]

Selective? But, and it may be my fault, I still don’t quite get your point.
I imagine you might use it in relation to the summer demonstrations where you may have interpreted the BLM supporters being ‘recognised’ in a quite different way from their right wing opponents.
Where gun crime in the US is concerned the ‘fact’ - if you are able to substantiate it as such - that the majority of perpetrators and victims may be black is surely a side issue to the question of whether there are too many guns to which access is too easy.
I know you’ll argue that this is just the media skewing things, but ALL the automatic and semi automatic carrying ‘people’ I saw on TV standing on the City Hall steps and the like in the ‘flyover states’ were white.

Precisely. All legally owned, and note (with one exception) not used. The media tend not to be present at drug deals gone wrong, corner shop heists and gang feuds, they like it nice and sunny. I take your point about 'people', its a scourge on the whole nation that they feel the need to arm themselves - at locjdown, we went for loo roll, they went for guns, says a lot!