OT Trump prematurely ejaculates

[swaledale]

I suspect that’s not the point, Ram. I doubt people object to gun ownership by responsible individuals for sporting purposes, but the 2nd Amendment together with the historic gun culture of the US have created a scenario where, imo, the necessary checks etc have been sacrificed on the altar of the right to carry arms being enshrined in their culture.
The number of and easy availability of guns and ammunition in the States inevitably leads to there being more incidents of gun crime and atrocities such as Columbine and Sandy Hook imo.

Certainly a society where people can wander around the streets openly carrying semi automatic assault rifles is one I'm glad I don't live in.

As for most gun crime being black on black, and knife crime is often dismissed in the same way in the Uk. As in many western societies, if your in a middle income group or above then your probably unlikely to encounter a problem unless some crazy turns up at your school, or office or you somehow wander into a poorer area.

At this point I'd probably normally say that a concerted effort to reduce poverty and increase lifestyle chances for lower income groups would be a good place to start, but then I'm sure I'd be given a sermon on how this is just idealistic.

[swaledale]

Precisely. All legally owned, and note (with one exception) not used. The media tend not to be present at drug deals gone wrong, corner shop heists and gang feuds, they like it nice and sunny. I take your point about 'people', its a scourge on the whole nation that they feel the need to arm themselves - at locjdown, we went for loo roll, they went for guns, says a lot!

We could just legalise drugs, which at a stroke would slash both crime and violence and raise some nice tax dollars?

[ramAnag]

Andy, re ‘legally owned’. The last time I was in Florida there were two incidents...one where a young child reached forward to where a gun had been casually stored in the console between the front seats of her parents’ car. Thinking, presumably, it was a toy she pulled the trigger, shooting and killing her father. A day or two afterwards another young child found a gun in a kitchen drawer leading to another, serious though not quite so disastrous, ‘accident’.
On both occasions the guns were completely legal and I guess we’d all agree they were stored carelessly, but the fact remains that greater gun control leading to less easy access would, in all probability, have prevented both incidents and countless others too.

[ramAnag]

At this point I'd probably normally say that a concerted effort to reduce poverty and increase lifestyle chances for lower income groups would be a good place to start, but then I'm sure I'd be given a sermon on how this is just idealistic.

Sod the ‘sermon’...because actually you’d be right....imo.

[Geoff Parkstone]

Guns don't kill people, people kill people.

Guns just make it easier

[swaledale]

Guns don't kill people, people kill people.

Guns just make it easier

And your point is?

Interestingly even Lynyrd Skynyrd, a so called southern "redneck" bank did a an anti gun song "Saturday Night Special"

But seeing as a gun's only purpose is to kill or injure, it would seem only sensible to have restrictions and controls upon who can own them and where they can be used? That might inconvenience a few people, but they would still be able to lawfully own and use a gun.

[Ram59]

Certainly a society where people can wander around the streets openly carrying semi automatic assault rifles is one I'm glad I don't live in.

As for most gun crime being black on black, and knife crime is often dismissed in the same way in the Uk. As in many western societies, if your in a middle income group or above then your probably unlikely to encounter a problem unless some crazy turns up at your school, or office or you somehow wander into a poorer area.

At this point I'd probably normally say that a concerted effort to reduce poverty and increase lifestyle chances for lower income groups would be a good place to start, but then I'm sure I'd be given a sermon on how this is just idealistic.

You're right, you're being idealistic.

Blacks are twice as likely as whites to be living in poverty, but there are in excess of 20 times as many whites in the UK. So, roughly speaking there are 10 times as many whites living in poverty in the UK as there are blacks. Do we hear about 10 times as much white knife crime in the UK?

I don't think so, unfortunately, carrying a knife is an accepted practice in young poor blacks, more so than any other race.

[Andy_Faber]

You're right, you're being idealistic.

Blacks are twice as likely as whites to be living in poverty, but there are in excess of 20 times as many whites in the UK. So, roughly speaking there are 10 times as many whites living in poverty in the UK as there are blacks. Do we hear about 10 times as much white knife crime in the UK?

I don't think so, unfortunately, carrying a knife is an accepted practice in young poor blacks, more so than any other race.

Ram's right on both counts Swale. you'r ignoring the per capita effect and you're being idealistic.

Edit: in fact you are demonstrating the exact behaviour that I've been talking about yet don't have a name for, trying against the objective evidence to justify a particular behaviour when it reflects badly on particular parts of society

[MadAmster]

Surely it's the combination of people with guns/knives that kill?

Here in the Netherlands, knife carrying among minors from 10 to 18 has skyrocketed in the past 2 or 3 years. Even in the more affluent areas, kids are carrying for protection because they know that a lot of other kids carry them and are likely to use them.

In the past week, one 13 year old and 2 fourte-en year olds have been arrested for using a knife. Two for the Dutch equivalant of GBH and attempted murder and one for murder.

The huge escalation has led to a new Law including stop and search rights for police. Shops are no longer allowed to sell knives to U18s. Anybody buying any kind of knife has to prove they are 18+. U18s may not carry a knife in public. Locker searches in schools are also now permitted.

The hope is that it will drastically reduce the number of kids carrying a knife.

I hope it works as there are way too many stabbing incidents. The major problem is kids don't see the danger. That despite ex perpetrators doing the rounds at schools. 5 years ago, 2 15 year olds who live in a small town about 10Km from me wanted some "extra money". They had heard from other kids how easy it was to wait until dark and then wait for someone to use the ATM. Threaten them with a knife and they'll give you the money and also get up to their limit out of the machine..... they picked on the wrong 60 odd year old man. He fought back and they killed him. They came fromgood families and had been taken in by the stories of "how easy" it was. It never occurred to them that a victim might not share their ideas and that it could end up with someone getting killed. They were mortified at how it ended. Their lives ruined. The victim's life ended. Their families' lives badly impacted....... the pair of them now tour schools advising against knife carrying.

[Geoff Parkstone]

Hope you weren't that victim MA