O/T. The Government's handling of Covid

[Ram59]

It's so easy to sort out isn't it. I mean the almighty Germans got it sorted right from the off and have continued to do so.......... Haven't they? It's not as if they've lost control and their much praised track and trace can't cope or is it? During the first wave, their government claimed that they'd been lucky and I think that their current figures are backing that.

I suppose we should have had the 2 week fire brake, which Starmer and myself, thought was a good idea, but which has proved a total failure under the labour controlled Welsh government. Interestingly, Maunchetty had the most civilised interview with the Welsh first minister yesterday, she didn't interrupt him once and never challenged him on his disastrous policy. I thought I was watching a Welsh labour party political broadcast.

[ramAnag]

It's so easy to sort out isn't it. I mean the almighty Germans got it sorted right from the off and have continued to do so.......... Haven't they? It's not as if they've lost control and their much praised track and trace can't cope or is it? During the first wave, their government claimed that they'd been lucky and I think that their current figures are backing that.

I suppose we should have had the 2 week fire brake, which Starmer and myself, thought was a good idea, but which has proved a total failure under the labour controlled Welsh government. Interestingly, Maunchetty had the most civilised interview with the Welsh first minister yesterday, she didn't interrupt him once and never challenged him on his disastrous policy. I thought I was watching a Welsh labour party political broadcast.

Oh c’mon Ram...you sound almost gleeful about the Germans.
It’s not a bloody competition...it’s about learning from the best examples and showing some leadership and personal responsibility
How can you take a leader seriously who, in the space of the same ‘speech’, talks about the likelihood of having a third wave in January but still supports a five day relaxation over Christmas? That’s insane.

At least the Germans acknowledged they were probably ‘lucky’ first time around and the other UK nation’s don’t seem to be chasing Johnson’s pathetic aim of avoiding the ‘Grinch’ label...I hear NI are entering lockdown again on Boxing Day.

[Geoff Parkstone]

"Its not a bloody competition" says the man who turns every governmental decision into a points winning competition between government and himself!!

Think on this over xmas - the people who drive these decisions that impact all our lives are not politicians, they are hard working civil servants and health experts plus no doubt many more who formulate the basic policy for Johnson, Gove etc to spout. Its these guys who have the data the skills and the knowledge to put forward solutions. The ****tish Old Etonian simply reads what he is given

[MadAmster]

FFS lighten up people!! My purpose was to try to put a little light into these dark days by getting you all to smile a little.

Total chuffin' failure.

[ramAnag]

"Its not a bloody competition" says the man who turns every governmental decision into a points winning competition between government and himself!!

Think on this over xmas - the people who drive these decisions that impact all our lives are not politicians, they are hard working civil servants and health experts plus no doubt many more who formulate the basic policy for Johnson, Gove etc to spout. Its these guys who have the data the skills and the knowledge to put forward solutions. The ****tish Old Etonian simply reads what he is given

...and you think on this Billy Bigbollux...Mr. Condescending! I currently have three very, very close family members impacted by Covid. One proved positive yesterday, one started a ten day period of self isolation yesterday and a third awaits results which should be available by Tuesday. They’re not politicians, civil servants, Old Etonians or bloody accountants...two are teachers and one is a residential social worker who works with poor people in need of a great deal of help.
So you duck off and think on that before making yet another snide and vacuous teacher ’joke’ and telling me that even suggesting consideration might be given to the roles people have when discussing vaccine availability is ‘facile’.

[Andy_Faber]

Interestingly, Maunchetty had the most civilised interview with the Welsh first minister yesterday, she didn't interrupt him once and never challenged him on his disastrous policy. I thought I was watching a Welsh labour party political broadcast.

Totally agree Ram, if she was even remotely consistent with the approach she takes with National govt reps she’s have been giving him a right shellacking

[Ram59]

Oh c’mon Ram...you sound almost gleeful about the Germans.
It’s not a bloody competition...it’s about learning from the best examples and showing some leadership and personal responsibility
How can you take a leader seriously who, in the space of the same ‘speech’, talks about the likelihood of having a third wave in January but still supports a five day relaxation over Christmas? That’s insane.

At least the Germans acknowledged they were probably ‘lucky’ first time around and the other UK nation’s don’t seem to be chasing Johnson’s pathetic aim of avoiding the ‘Grinch’ label...I hear NI are entering lockdown again on Boxing Day.

I'm trying to highlight the difficulty of the situation and the continual berating of the government and fawning of other governments, when they appear to get something right. The German government was widely held as dealing with covid correctly in the spring and having it under control. I wonder how their policies and actions that were so effective then, have now failed so spectacularly. Surely, if it was their actions that controlled the virus then, they should have continued to work now.

I'm sick to death of the media promoting one expert or business person claiming the government is too strict, only for the next article to have another expert or business person saying the opposite. Then we have the media constantly searching the country to find 2 pubs either side of a tier line and describe the situation as ridiculous, that story was done to death months ago when Leicester first went into lockdown.

Scottish and Welsh governments are never held to task for their many failings.

Johnson is trying to allow us to be adult about Xmas, rather than criminalising normal families. The people most likely to be responsible for spreading the virus are those that would ignore any rules anyway.

It's not a competition, but you seemed to 'enjoy' highlighting our death figures early in the crisis and comparing them with other countries throughout the world and how we should have took our lead from them.

[Andy_Faber]

Agreeing with Ram on most points - Its clear to anyone who stands back and takes an objective look that its BLOODY difficult to get any sort of handle on this virus, yes our (UK) administration appear to be getting a beating for being too strict AND too lenient at the same time, subject to scrutiny that the reginal govts escape, and even hammered for the fact that county borders exist. Broadcast media have come over like the unpaid PR agencies for Scottish and Welsh administrations even now when things are going tits up in both territories.

[ramAnag]

Johnson is trying to allow us to be adult about Xmas, rather than criminalising normal families. The people most likely to be responsible for spreading the virus are those that would ignore any rules anyway.

It's not a competition, but you seemed to 'enjoy' highlighting our death figures early in the crisis and comparing them with other countries throughout the world and how we should have took our lead from them.

Johnson isn’t trying to ‘allow us to be adult about Christmas’ and avoiding ‘criminalising normal families’ imo. I’m not sure what a ‘normal’ family is but sensible/reasonable families wouldn’t be running the risk of being criminalised anyway, they’d recognise the risk.

He’s trying to remain popular and create a situation where if it all goes ‘pear shaped’ it’ll be ‘our’ fault not the Governments...again imo. It’s abdication of responsibility...yet again.

The question you, and possibly Andy, might like to answer is...when the figures are clearly going up, when hospitals are again in danger of being overwhelmed, how does it make sense for the Government to effectively endorse a five day relaxation of the rules? How can that possibly represent good leadership?

I’m sorry if you ever thought I would ‘ENJOY highlighting death figures’. That isn’t true but I obviously didn’t make my point sufficiently well. The fact is that some countries have handled things much better than us while others, most notably the USA, have been appalling.
I have no idea why things have deteriorated to the extent they have in Germany and, to a lesser extent, Holland but the fact that they seem to be struggling at present should, imo, only be a cause for regret.

[Andy_Faber]

The question you, and possibly Andy, might like to answer is...when the figures are clearly going up, when hospitals are again in danger of being overwhelmed, how does it make sense for the Government to effectively endorse a five day relaxation of the rules? How can that possibly represent good leadership?

My own response is it DOES make sense to offer some relief for the most important family get together of the year, my own opinion is it should have been shorter - travel/stay Christmas Eve, stay Christmas Day, return travel Boxing Day, but that's just one of a million opinions. BUT there are problems with ANY decision, including allowing no alleviation at all - some folk will assess the offering and treat it as a MAXIMUM (yourself included) and either scale down or cancel, and at the other end of the scale there are folk who will jolly up to the max and beyond - its human nature. To my mind it makes no difference now, there isn't a non-vax solution which doesn't result in mutually assured destruction, either of our wealth or health. IMO the absolute maximum effort should be applied to the acquisition of the vaccine and its provision to the population in the order already determined. The whole of the free world is failing to be disciplined enough to control things despite now having two pops at it, the vaccine gives everyone offered it peace of mind - that they have either taken on immunity or are happy to run the gauntlet