O/T. The Government's handling of Covid

[Ram59]

My comment more specifically in relation to your earlier point was that you seem to regularly compare us to your perception of what is happening in the EU to make some sort of pro Brexit point. I don’t understand how that’s helpful.

Sorry...I may have missed or misunderstood something, but I don’t understand your final paragraph...or Andy’s.[/QUOTE]

Maybe it's in retaliation for for you remainers constantly bringing up how we are worse off because of brexit. We've left, how are your pro EU arguments of any use now? I'm just pointing out that in this particular instance, the fact that we are not part of the EU common vaccination programme, is giving us the opportunity to save many lives, whether or not we take that opportunity, remains to be seen.

My point in the last paragraph was that you wish for a global effort to save the whole planet. Well, I seem to remember you making a point of celebrating the German, Turkish and Belgian contribution to the Pfizer vaccination which will only be of benefit to the rich western nations, whereas I can't recall your enthusiasm for the British Oxford vaccine, which is so much more important when trying to free the majority of the planet's population from this disease.

It's not a competition, but we should all be proud that our scientists in Oxford look like being the ones that will enable the whole world to benefit from their work because they will be able to afford and administer that vaccine, unlike the Pfizer one.

[ramAnag]

What do you think is happening at the moment then? If ever there has been an example of the world pooling resources, skill and developments this is it. You have already mentioned the Pfizer vaccine being German Turkish made in Belgium, with Pfizer being a US company with big research/manufacturing facilities in UK and elsewhere (her indoors used to work for them). Astra Zeneca is a global company (British Swedish US Poland).

I'm not familiar with the global rollout programs, and I am sure that priorities will be given to those who ordered first and made the advance payments against those orders to fund the research that helped create the drugs. However I am sure that the drug will be made available globally as it rolls out, and doubtless there are queues outside Pfizer and AZ doors with orders. But many third world countries have no structure to administer the drugs, no proper state health services etc. Its not going to be easy to get something into everyone's arms, even if they want it (eg religious reasons etc). The logistics are going to be horrible - and of course everyone will want it for free, which doesn't exactly tie in with big Pharma mentality.

Of course Europe and North America will get it first and maybe they will pay enough for it to make cut price options available to those nations who cannot pay. So it seems to me that the world is adopting a global approach, but clearly Europe and USA are going to be the guinea pigs to ensure it works before being given wider exposure.

Equally of course there is a possibility, indeed probability that UK vax targets may not be met - they are of course very optimistic looking, but even if we get 75% of the way by mid February it will be the result of immense hard work and organisational skills.

I feel to accuse BJ, the government and even the country of triumphalism is somewhat ironic from someone who bathes in the warm waters of triumphalism and "I told you so" whenever BJ/government has to change direction of policy etc culminating in your last para above. You might not see this as triumphalism, but to my mind if isomething walks like a duck, swims like a duck and quacks like a duck, its usually a duck.

Para’ 1) Yes...it’s encouraging.
Para’ 2) Can only agree.
Para’ 3) Hope so.
Para’ 4) Hmmm...let’s see what happens. If we achieve what has been set out it will be a fine and praiseworthy achievement as I said hours ago.
Para’ 5) ‘Bathing in the warm waters of Triumphalism’...absolute nonsense. I’m consumed by the depths of despair. For little old me to be able to predict (not react to) the Education Secretary’s continued errors of judgement is no source of comfort. For the Prime Minister to have to do a complete about turn regarding the safety of schools between Andrew Marr at 9.40 on Sunday morning and his address to the nation at 8.00 pm the following evening is nothing short of scary, but you keep defending the indefensible if you like.

[Andy_Faber]

On a slightly different Covid related tack, im having to use a temporary Facebook account at present and it has a more ‘local’ slant than my usual one, therefore I know (in real life) some
Of the folk commenting. There’s a thread about the vaccine ‘arriving’ at the velodrome, and lots of comments: those who are having the vaccine just say so, but of those who don’t there are a few who explain why in reasoned tones (we’ve seen MA explain in such a manner), but then there is a large minority who’s confirmation of non-vaccing is supported by utter, mind boggling bo-locks. I’ve never seen such twaddle, and my worry is that these people walk amongst us. Reading it has made me even more reluctant to step out anywhere where I’m within 100 yards of the next person than I was before, jeez there’s a guy who thinks he’s immune because he mouthwashes with TCP

[ramAnag]

On a slightly different Covid related tack, im having to use a temporary Facebook account at present and it has a more ‘local’ slant than my usual one, therefore I know (in real life) some
Of the folk commenting. There’s a thread about the vaccine ‘arriving’ at the velodrome, and lots of comments: those who are having the vaccine just say so, but of those who don’t there are a few who explain why in reasoned tones (we’ve seen MA explain in such a manner), but then there is a large minority who’s confirmation of non-vaccing is supported by utter, mind boggling bo-locks. I’ve never seen such twaddle, and my worry is that these people walk amongst us. Reading it has made me even more reluctant to step out anywhere where I’m within 100 yards of the next person than I was before, jeez there’s a guy who thinks he’s immune because he mouthwashes with TCP

It’s amazing isn’t it Andy? Unbelievable really...I mean there are people out there who still think we’ll be better off after Brexit!

I’ll get me coat.

[Geoff Parkstone]

you cant fix stupid, but he may be right! he will probably only know when he is looking straight up at the vaulted ceiling of a chapel of rest.

not into crazy conspiracy - alien etc theories, but there is a potential lot of truth if one accepts that this whole thing was created by the chinese to ensure world dominance and win the Sino American trade wars. On the face of it the Chinese economies are recovering faster and they are likely to come out ahead of the game as a result.

Could we believe that they could create such a virus artificially, and create the antidote, let it loose on some of their people and send their own out to spread it whilst innoculating the rest of their people in secret? It would tie in with their purported low death count, and its sure as hell is a very successful act of global terrorism if true.

None of which supports the non vax movement but its a fascinating insight into the western perception of the devious minds of what Clousseau would call "my little yellow friend"

[ramAnag]

My comment more specifically in relation to your earlier point was that you seem to regularly compare us to your perception of what is happening in the EU to make some sort of pro Brexit point. I don’t understand how that’s helpful.

Sorry...I may have missed or misunderstood something, but I don’t understand your final paragraph...or Andy’s.

Maybe it's in retaliation for for you remainers constantly bringing up how we are worse off because of brexit. We've left, how are your pro EU arguments of any use now? I'm just pointing out that in this particular instance, the fact that we are not part of the EU common vaccination programme, is giving us the opportunity to save many lives, whether or not we take that opportunity, remains
My point in the last paragraph was that you wish for a global effort to save the whole planet. Well, I seem to remember you making a point of celebrating the German, Turkish and Belgian contribution to the Pfizer vaccination which will only be of benefit to the rich western nations, whereas I can't recall your enthusiasm for the British Oxford vaccine, which is so much more important when trying to free the majority of the planet's population from this disease.

It's not a competition, but we should all be proud that our scientists in Oxford look like being the ones that will enable the whole world to benefit from their work because they will be able to afford and administer that vaccine, unlike the Pfizer one.[/QUOTE]
—————————————————————————————————————————————————— ————————-
You’re right Ram...I didn’t make it clear about how pleased and, yes...proud, I am about the Oxford vaccine...but I am and I recognise that, because it is likely to cost around £3 per dose as opposed to something between 8-10 x that amount, it is likely to be more widely used.

My thoughts about the Pfizer vaccine were that I was hacked off with people celebrating the ‘great British achievement’ of us being the first to vaccinate a ninety odd year old lady when in fact it was a Turkish/German/Belgian achievement.

Hope that’s cleared that up...I’d now be even happier if we had some genuine experts in charge of sourcing and delivering the vaccine, instead of politicians.

[Andy_Faber]

Maybe it's in retaliation for for you remainers constantly bringing up how we are worse off because of brexit. We've left, how are your pro EU arguments of any use now? I'm just pointing out that in this particular instance, the fact that we are not part of the EU common vaccination programme, is giving us the opportunity to save many lives, whether or not we take that opportunity, remains to be seen.

My point in the last paragraph was that you wish for a global effort to save the whole planet. Well, I seem to remember you making a point of celebrating the German, Turkish and Belgian contribution to the Pfizer vaccination which will only be of benefit to the rich western nations, whereas I can't recall your enthusiasm for the British Oxford vaccine, which is so much more important when trying to free the majority of the planet's population from this disease.

It's not a competition, but we should all be proud that our scientists in Oxford look like being the ones that will enable the whole world to benefit from their work because they will be able to afford and administer that vaccine, unlike the Pfizer one.

You’re right Ram...I didn’t make it clear about how pleased and, yes...proud, I am about the Oxford vaccine...but I am and I recognise that, because it is likely to cost around £3 per dose as opposed to something between 8-10 x that amount, it is likely to be more widely used.

My thoughts about the Pfizer vaccine were that I was hacked off with people celebrating the ‘great British achievement’ of us being the first to vaccinate a ninety odd year old lady when in fact it was a Turkish/German/Belgian achievement.

Hope that’s cleared that up...I’d now be even happier if we had some genuine experts in charge of sourcing and delivering the vaccine, instead of politicians.[/QUOTE]

Those last two paragraphs are just so off-beam rA. your keenness to dampen enthusiasm results in you mixing invention (and good for the multinational team who did so) with deployment (totally to the credit of UKPLC from the same standing start as ROW). And who says there isn’t experts sourcing and delivering the vaccine? I for one think their sourcing decision was well-researched compared to, for instance, EU

[Ram59]

This conversation about the rollout of the vaccine has got me thinking. Rather than just complain about vaccinations not getting done quick enough and leaving to others, I believe that we should all help if we can, so I've just signed up with the NHS volunteer service, to assist with the rollout.

Something positive to be gained from posting on this board.

[ramAnag]

Those last two paragraphs are just so off-beam rA. your keenness to dampen enthusiasm results in you mixing invention (and good for the multinational team who did so) with deployment (totally to the credit of UKPLC from the same standing start as ROW). And who says there isn’t experts sourcing and delivering the vaccine? I for one think their sourcing decision was well-researched compared to, for instance, EU

I’m not ‘keen to dampen enthusiasm’, Andy, but I think my point was...Nadim Zahawi has just been made the Minister in charge of Vaccinations.
Two years ago he was Minister for Children and Families...then he became Minister for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy.
It must be amazing to be an expert in such diverse areas. I know little about the man and I’m not going to criticise him...I just seriously hope he’s a hell of a lot better than many of his Cabinet colleagues and that he is aided by genuine experts in the areas of procurement and distribution and doesn’t have to rely on those who advised regarding ‘test and trace’.

Good for you (really) Ram...what are you likely to have to do? I’m assuming you’re not qualified to actually vaccinate folk.

[Andy_Faber]

Well done Ram!