O/T:- Covid Trump

[Ayeayeskipper]

To be more precise, social media sites have connected loonies with other loonies, removing any “reality” other than the one they experience on their timelines or TV stations. Hence why millions genuinely believe Trump won, despite zero evidence for that and 60 legal challenges being laughed out of court.

On a tangent, it’s also why some morons are telling doctors they want “the English” COVID vaccine.

I've heard some people are waking up with American accents so I want the "English" vaccine as well.

[jackal2]

We've just seen how his supporters will react when he has a platform. But as Twitter has just banned him for life and other social media sites are following he will find it harder to voice his bile and drum up sympathy, especially as fellow Republicans are starting to disassociate with brand Trump. As soon as Fox News follows the hunt the pack will quieten.

Most people would agree the time has come for Donald Trump to exit the political stage, but I think some of the political establishment and media tend to forget he is only the symptom of a problem and not the cause, in terms of deep societal divisions in the United States.

We’ve seen two examples of civil unrest in the US from different parts of the community in recent times. The first was triggered by the death of George Floyd. The second was triggered by the words and actions of Donald Trump. Consequently, the political and media focus has been on these two individuals as the obvious main protagonists in each “story”, but their departure won’t solve any of the fundamental issues.

The frustrations that came to the surface following the death of George Floyd were a reaction to that incident, but they were not caused by it. Frustration and feelings of unfair treatment have existed in some US ethnic minority communities for many years, long before anyone had heard of George Floyd. His death was only the latest catalyst for those feelings to re-erupt.

Likewise, the anger we saw surfacing earlier this week on Capitol Hill existed long before Donald Trump decided he would run for President. His only ‘trick’, and the reason for his initial success, was that he recognised the potential political power to be gleaned from such feelings growing in small town America. He actively exploited this anger, first with his “drain the swamp” mantra to win the Presidency, and then with his “rigged election” mantra in an attempt to keep it. He didn’t start the fire, he just repeatedly and ruthlessly fanned the flames.

A week is a long time in politics and names like George Floyd and Donald Trump will fade into the history books, but the decades/centuries-old anger that their actions or experiences temporarily brought to the surface will erupt again in the future, with new people, events and political leaders as the next catalyst.

If a large enough group of people believe that they have been ‘done down’ or ‘ignored’ by the political establishment, then they can deliver huge political and even military power to any would-be leader who can harness those feelings and manage them to their advantage. It matters not a jot whether these feelings of injustice are legitimate, exaggerated or imagined. What matters is how many people believe those feelings to be true, and as that group grows, the more powerful (and convinced) they and their leaders become.

[BigFatPie]

Most people would agree the time has come for Donald Trump to exit the political stage, but I think some of the political establishment and media tend to forget he is only the symptom of a problem and not the cause, in terms of deep societal divisions in the United States.

We’ve seen two examples of civil unrest in the US from different parts of the community in recent times. The first was triggered by the death of George Floyd. The second was triggered by the words and actions of Donald Trump. Consequently, the political and media focus has been on these two individuals as the obvious main protagonists in each “story”, but their departure won’t solve any of the fundamental issues.

The frustrations that came to the surface following the death of George Floyd were a reaction to that incident, but they were not caused by it. Frustration and feelings of unfair treatment have existed in some US ethnic minority communities for many years, long before anyone had heard of George Floyd. His death was only the latest catalyst for those feelings to re-erupt.

Likewise, the anger we saw surfacing earlier this week on Capitol Hill existed long before Donald Trump decided he would run for President. His only ‘trick’, and the reason for his initial success, was that he recognised the potential political power to be gleaned from such feelings growing in small town America. He actively exploited this anger, first with his “drain the swamp” mantra to win the Presidency, and then with his “rigged election” mantra in an attempt to keep it. He didn’t start the fire, he just repeatedly and ruthlessly fanned the flames.

A week is a long time in politics and names like George Floyd and Donald Trump will fade into the history books, but the decades/centuries-old anger that their actions or experiences temporarily brought to the surface will erupt again in the future, with new people, events and political leaders as the next catalyst.

If a large enough group of people believe that they have been ‘done down’ or ‘ignored’ by the political establishment, then they can deliver huge political and even military power to any would-be leader who can harness those feelings and manage them to their advantage. It matters not a jot whether these feelings of injustice are legitimate, exaggerated or imagined. What matters is how many people believe those feelings to be true, and as that group grows, the more powerful (and convinced) they and their leaders become.

So are you saying that the ‘grievances’ of those who rioted on Wednesday are comparable in merit with those of the people who protested after the death of George Floyd? Some fine people on both sides?

I’m guessing you are haha.

[jackal2]

So are you saying that the ‘grievances’ of those who rioted on Wednesday are comparable in merit with those of the people who protested after the death of George Floyd? Some fine people on both sides?

I’m guessing you are haha.

No, but it doesn't entirely surprise me that you're the one who takes my genuine attempt at an objective analysis of the situation in the United States and seeks to re-interpret it in a malicious way. I suppose that having seen the word 'Jackal' at the top of the post, and knowing that my personal views are right-leaning, everything you read after that (if you actually did read it) was going to be interpreted through your usual filter.

[BigFatPie]

No, but it doesn't entirely surprise me that you're the one who takes my genuine attempt at an objective analysis of the situation in the United States and seeks to re-interpret it in a malicious way. I suppose that having seen the word 'Jackal' at the top of the post, and knowing that my personal views are right-leaning, everything you read after that (if you actually did read it) was going to be interpreted through your usual filter.

I’m interpreting your post through the filter of you previously being a fan of Trump, but like a lot of others, pretending that now you’never were.

If you’d said that Trump tapped into the latent racism that many people have, and used it to his political advantage, then I’d have fully agreed with you. Brexit supporting politicians did something similar. For some reason you always want to swerve that simple truth.

The George Floyd protestors were, by and large demonstrating against long term discrimination and systemic racism. What were those who invaded the Capitol protesting about?

[TheBlackHorse]

... steady Jackal, BFP has a kind of knee jerk reaction to anyone who posts (a) common sense, (b) who is a bit of a righty and (c) anyone who attacks his Dad, AKA Elite or Snobhead 1. His posts often bare no relation to what you may have posted and, as we know, often try to insert some righteous lefty comment. I know that you will dust off his comments as you would a gnat which landed on your sleeve ...

[BigFatPie]

... steady Jackal, BFP has a kind of knee jerk reaction to anyone who posts (a) common sense, (b) who is a bit of a righty and (c) anyone who attacks his Dad, AKA Elite or Snobhead 1. His posts often bare no relation to what you may have posted and, as we know, often try to insert some righteous lefty comment. I know that you will dust off his comments as you would a gnat which landed on your sleeve ...

Nice one Hoss. If I was Jackal and I’d got to the end of writing another well-written and considered post only to find that you agreed with any of it, I’d be quickly reaching for the delete button. And the glue...

[jackal2]

I’m interpreting your post through the filter of you previously being a fan of Trump, but like a lot of others, pretending that now you never were.

I don't ever recall describing myself as a “fan” of Trump. In fact I have some recollection of writing a while back that I wasn't particularly a fan of Trump as a person. What IS true is that as someone with right-leaning views I inevitably agreed with the thrust of quite a few of his policies, particularly on the economic front. I still do, but it doesn’t mean I endorse everything he has ever said and done. I don’t even say that about Margaret Thatcher!

If you’d said that Trump tapped into the latent racism that many people have, and used it to his political advantage, then I’d have fully agreed with you. Brexit supporting politicians did something similar.

I'm sure you would agree, because those are value judgements made through your filter that everyone who voted for Trump or Brexit is a racist.

(Actually, I credit you with plenty enough intelligence to know that isn’t true, but I’m using an exaggerated form of your own simplistic narrative to parody that narrative. That's a technique often used by the left-wing comedian Stewart Lee, of whom I am a fan).

The George Floyd protestors were, by and large demonstrating against long term discrimination and systemic racism. What were those who invaded the Capitol protesting about?

I don’t presume to know what was in the mind of each individual protestor but I’m sure both/any groups of protestors are entirely convinced of their cause to demonstrate and the injustice they believe they have suffered. The extent to which they have a legitimate case is a subjective judgement which boils all the way down to each individual’s personal experience, and even then will vary depending upon who is making that judgement and their own political bias.

The more important point is that public frustration and anger can become dangerous and subject to political exploitation regardless of whether it is judged to be well-founded or not. Any politician genuinely seeking a resolution to these societal problems needs to begin a dialogue with any sizeable group of protestors from the starting point that their view is heard, even if it is not entirely accepted. At least then you have a basis for discussion and progress. Otherwise, any group of people who feel their concerns are being marginalized or dismissed will only become more angry.

[Elite_Pie]

... steady Jackal, BFP has a kind of knee jerk reaction to anyone who posts (a) common sense, (b) who is a bit of a righty and (c) anyone who attacks his Dad, AKA Elite or Snobhead 1. His posts often bare no relation to what you may have posted and, as we know, often try to insert some righteous lefty comment. I know that you will dust off his comments as you would a gnat which landed on your sleeve ...

Do you still believe the election was stolen from Trump, Horsey?

[jackal2]

If I was Jackal and I’d got to the end of writing another well-written and considered post...

Apologies BFP I didn't realise your initial response to my post was saying it was well-written and considered. I must have seen the name 'BigFatPie' at the top and, knowing your left-leaning political views, automatically assumed you were criticising me!