Billy Jones

[MikeSB]

SO we have an academy but don't coach them, what do we do with the academy then? Let them watch CBBC?

OK I will bite..)

Academies are a relatively new concept and were unknown lets say 40 years ago and yet we we were one of the best footballing sides in the world and won the world cup in 66 and we all know of the top players like Charlton, Best and Greaves who never had coaching and recently Rooney as a boy was scoring 50 odd goals at schoolboy level and that was the way players were recognised and signed and moved on or even just played for one club like Tom Finney for Preston and so you will need to define the word 'coaching' to know what that actually means. eg how to pass the ball, how to head, how to dribble, how to swerve the ball or shield the ball and I will argue that most of us know how to do that 'instinctively' and why two year old can do things etc etc etc And so people have an innate natural ability in all walks of life and sports is no different and as I said if 'coaching' really made a difference then they would all be PL standard and so what is it that makes the difference. Was Frank Lord taught to score goals with his head and yet he still holds the record at Crewe for the number of hat tricks etc.

Now, people will argue that coaching is essential and they will have a point of view because most of them will not have seen the greats of yesteryear and so many 'within' the business ie academies get a decent living even though most have never played at a high level and it was Garry Player who said that when a coach could play better golf then him, he would take notice.

I will accept one thing and that is today's players are far far fitter than yesteryear and that is because they all have better faciilites and gyms and equipment and even then a discussion about pitches and players getting the hell knocked out them were normal and so they all had to be pretty fit. I've seen the 'standard' of players in amateur and professional football over almost 70 years and its my view that players come through by having that innate natural ability but others will argue that 'coaching' is essential but as I said they need to define what that actually means. Most managers, even at our level try and win matches by having the right tactics. And when they get that wrong, they lose and vice versa generally.

Having a different opinion on this is fine, people can find evidence for their view and so can I...... ATB...

Can you define the term 'coaching'?

[out0lunch]

OK I will bite..)

Academies are a relatively new concept and were unknown lets say 40 years ago and yet we we were one of the best footballing sides in the world and won the world cup in 66 and we all know of the top players like Charlton, Best and Greaves who never had coaching and recently Rooney as a boy was scoring 50 odd goals at schoolboy level and that was the way players were recognised and signed and moved on or even just played for one club like Tom Finney for Preston and so you will need to define the word 'coaching' to know what that actually means. eg how to pass the ball, how to head, how to dribble, how to swerve the ball or shield the ball and I will argue that most of us know how to do that 'instinctively' and why two year old can do things etc etc etc And so people have an innate natural ability in all walks of life and sports is no different and as I said if 'coaching' really made a difference then they would all be PL standard and so what is it that makes the difference. Was Frank Lord taught to score goals with his head and yet he still holds the record at Crewe for the number of hat tricks etc.

Now, people will argue that coaching is essential and they will have a point of view because most of them will not have seen the greats of yesteryear and so many 'within' the business ie academies get a decent living even though most have never played at a high level and it was Garry Player who said that when a coach could play better golf then him, he would take notice.

I will accept one thing and that is today's players are far far fitter than yesteryear and that is because they all have better faciilites and gyms and equipment and even then a discussion about pitches and players getting the hell knocked out them were normal and so they all had to be pretty fit. I've seen the 'standard' of players in amateur and professional football over almost 70 years and its my view that players come through by having that innate natural ability but others will argue that 'coaching' is essential but as I said they need to define what that actually means. Most managers, even at our level try and win matches by having the right tactics. And when they get that wrong, they lose and vice versa generally.

Having a different opinion on this is fine, people can find evidence for their view and so can I...... ATB...

Can you define the term 'coaching'?

So what's the point of an academy then if they don't need coaching? You can define coaching Mike as it's you that says we don't need it.

What did the Charltons of this world do when they signed for United, just sat around all day or have a lttle kick about for an hour or two.
Good players like those above have an inate talent that needs fostering and improving on.

[MikeSB]

So what's the point of an academy then if they don't need coaching? You can define coaching Mike as it's you that says we don't need it.

What did the Charltons of this world do when they signed for United, just sat around all day or have a lttle kick about for an hour or two.
Good players like those above have an inate talent that needs fostering and improving on.

Hi mate, I wasn't going to get roped in on this topic as you know its been done to death and really its a sterile debate as academies are here to stay and most clubs have them even non league. No, what's happened is the academies have taken over where the schools were years ago when most schools had football teams and we all went and played sports at nearby facilities. I went to the Boro ie Brierley Street and there were great facilities up by Coronation Street where the Sir William Stanier Academy School is now...Now its unusual for schools to have these facilities. The other avenue was playing amateur football in the dozens of local teams they had back then and I played for two or three at the time. So the better players went on to get trials at their local professional clubs and so on and so forth and so that's why our academy have toddlers going to them with a hope they can develop and i use that term advisadly and you could argue they get some form of coaching but they do develop natural skills when they gets stronger and play competitively. Someone told me that Dario had a big board with a circle drawn on it and he gave 50p to each lad that could hit the centre of it and so yup that is coaching of a sort...

Now, you ask about the likes of Best and Charlton spare time etc...Big big subject as we know some players go off the rails with all the free time they had but they did 'practice' and try and keep fit via exercise but arguably didn't need someone to teach them the skills they had. Beckham became brilliant at free kicks soley because he practiced and practiced when even Ferguson told him to get off home many times. In those far off days the only practice facilities were the on the same pitch they played on week in and out no matter what the weather and you can see old photos of famous players doing just that. Its probably why the pitches were in the heavy state they were in winter. Players were signed as strikers or defenders just like now.

Now players are spoiled really with the wages, the facilites and the sponsership most of them get nowadays. Its inevitable that players in all sports will improve by practice, competition and having great facilites and some will shine more than others with or without some guy called 'coach' being involved... I would bet most kids at these academies hate the one to one stuff and want to play against others when that is where they really improve. They then get away from the adult coaches and just get on with it.

As i said its a sterile debate and people can have any opinion they like and that's OK...Managers are tacticians not coaches but again its down to what they actually do to prepare for the next match. Watch the videos and tell them they need to do to stop goals or take the goal chances? That could be classed as coaching but very much doubt Best or Charlton or even the great Stanley Matthews needed to be told anything! As the great Greavsie who has just been honoured with an MBE said the only talk he got from the manager was to go out and enjoy yourself.I think that is a great message even today.....He certainly did that..