O/T. The Government's handling of Covid

[Andy_Faber]

Jeez did you have to quote so I can read the deranged one from Notts ramblings?

As usual he has missed the point, I wasn't slapping Sturgeon on the back, I was pointing out that despite matters being no better she has retained credibility. Despite what he says she has managed a better message from what I've seen and more importantly the voters think so to!

Also why so uppity about a leader advocating independence, thought Brexit was all about "taking back Control", IF the Scot's want to do this then thats up to them surely?

Not that anyone gives a **** what Thicky supposedly "thinks"

I think you might be observing from too far away, and through the lens of a biased UK media, when you talk of credibility. The debate (about Sturgeon as a person and independance as an issue) in the actual country where this matters rages more deeply than Brexit, and its VERY factionalised - I personally don't know anyone (who would be eligible to vote) who would vote for independance, and through Mrs F's family that's a LOT of people. Of course I know that's not representative, its part of a faction/bubble, there are many many others with views both ways. One thing that most appear to want though, is a clear idea of the 'deal' they would be voting for, BEFORE they voted, ie what SHOULD have happened with the EU referendum.

[swaledale]

I think you might be observing from too far away, and through the lens of a biased UK media, when you talk of credibility. The debate (about Sturgeon as a person and independance as an issue) in the actual country where this matters rages more deeply than Brexit, and its VERY factionalised - I personally don't know anyone (who would be eligible to vote) who would vote for independance, and through Mrs F's family that's a LOT of people. Of course I know that's not representative, its part of a faction/bubble, there are many many others with views both ways. One thing that most appear to want though, is a clear idea of the 'deal' they would be voting for, BEFORE they voted, ie what SHOULD have happened with the EU referendum.

I actually have Scottish routes and many relatives in the North, so my prism is like yours reflected in their views, I'd say it was 50-50, but overall Sturgeon has high approval ratings from the lectorate, but then when has anyone's personal experiences tallied with polls?

Approving of how she has managed the Covid situation and wanting independence are two very different things but the point I was making why would an English person give a flying **** about it? If Northern Ireland, Wales and Scotland want to go their own way, thats fine by me, self determination and all that!

My objection to Brexit, was not on the principle of leaving, but more leaving the single market and customs union which was madness!

[Andy_Faber]

the point I was making why would an English person give a flying **** about it?

Two reasons -

First, as an Englishman amongst Scots I'm in the middle of a situation where there is always discussion/grievances to be had, the decision last time deepened some divisions amongst acquaintances if not friends, another referendum would do the same

Second, as a taxpayer/financial contributor in the 'mother entity' I would be concerned not to be financially worse off by any deal done - you've expressed ire at the financial (etc) impact of the Brexit deal, I would guess if you personally were being consistent you would be highly critical of too soft a Scottish independance deal, I certainly would. If I were negotiating I'd take the approach The EU did with UK - 'so you want to be an independent nation do you? well cop for these conditions tich'...

[ramAnag]

If I were negotiating I'd take the approach The EU did with UK - 'so you want to be an independent nation do you? well cop for these conditions tich'...

Hmmm...interesting observation from someone who repeatedly defended - without ever ‘supporting’ - Brexit... absolutely accurate too. Wish you’d recognised that all along.

[Andy_Faber]

Hmmm...interesting observation from someone who repeatedly defended - without ever ‘supporting’ - Brexit... absolutely accurate too. Wish you’d recognised that all along.

We seem to be all loved up on here today so don't ignite all that again!

[ramAnag]

We seem to be all loved up on here today so don't ignite all that again!

I’m not really trying to ‘ignite’ anything. It’s just interesting that it’s taken till now for you to concede that ‘Brexit’ - i.e. going it alone - is likely to put us in, in your own words, the position of ‘tich’...a bit player rather than a major player.

[Andy_Faber]

I’m not really trying to ‘ignite’ anything. It’s just interesting that it’s taken till now for you to concede that ‘Brexit’ - i.e. going it alone - is likely to put us in, in your own words, the position of ‘tich’...a bit player rather than a major player.

Not meaning that at all rA, just reflecting the perception most big people/entities have of their smaller relations. The vaccine rollout is a great and high profile early win for ‘tich’ ’, time will tell if it’s an anomaly or not.

[Ram59]

I’m not really trying to ‘ignite’ anything. It’s just interesting that it’s taken till now for you to concede that ‘Brexit’ - i.e. going it alone - is likely to put us in, in your own words, the position of ‘tich’...a bit player rather than a major player.

It sounds like a simple comparison with Brexit, but in reality it's nothing like, RA.

I personally back their right to choose and wouldn't worry unduly if they did leave. Their contribution to the UK's gdp is around 8% and a decent part of that, including MOD contracts, would be returned to the rest of the UK. Future energy will not come from the North Sea, so that'll be no great loss. The damage to the UK will be limited, economically. It's a well known fact that the UK government subsidise the the Scottish government.

Let's look at it from Scotland's point of view, in comparison to Brexit, they want their independence and then to give it back to the EU. They want to keep the pound, but won't be able to, especially if they join the EU. Then joining the EU, is no forgone conclusion, will Spain allow it, with their own problems with Catalonia? Scotland doesn't fulfil existing economic conditions to join either, how long will the application process last, how is Scotland run in the meantime? They will have no representatives or embassies throughout the world.