O/T. The Government's handling of Covid

[Andy_Faber]

I really would look up the definition of racist if I was you, because as before your completely and utterly wrong! Oh dear how silly can one be to repeat the same error more than once?

Sorry Swale I have you on ignore

[ramAnag]

The thing is RA, is that you've suggested and there is a general call for teachers, to be vaccinated by the middle of February, which will be immediately after the over 70s group and before the over 60s which are to be followed by the vulnerable 16-64 year olds.

You may fit and healthy and I commend your personal attitude, but this doesn't give you or anyone else the right to push more vulnerable people back in the queue for young teachers, who are statistically very unlikely to be affected.

I hope that you stay safe RA, but just because you're fit and healthy, it doesn't mean that you're safe. Our founder and president of our walking football group was your age and fit and healthy, his funeral is next Thursday. It hit us players like a ton of bricks, because you believe that it only kills the obese, BAME, those with health problems, over 80s, etc. But no, it's brought home to me and the other 'lads', that nobody is safe. RIP Phil.

So, as well meaning as your thoughts are, is a few more weeks lost education, too bigger price to pay for many lives in the over 50s and those vulnerable younger ones?

Fair comment Ram. I’m genuinely sorry about your mate but I’m actually not being in any way complacent.

My life, imo, in the current circumstances has fewer risks than the average teacher, hospital worker, shop worker etc.

I kind of agree with you about ‘a few more weeks lost education’ however it’s not just that. There’s a huge economic implication of the child minding service provided by schools being shut that is perhaps only now being recognised.
That is actually the genuine driving force behind schools being opened asap. I don’t want the cost of that to be sick and dying teachers.

[swaledale]

Sorry Swale I have you on ignore

Thats a shame, because you will continue with your ignorance then.

You might also want to consider this before making stupid false accusations of racism.

While assumptions and stereotypes about white people do exist, this is considered racial prejudice, not racism. Racial prejudice refers to a set of discriminatory or derogatory attitudes based on assumptions derived from perceptions about race and/or skin colour. Thus, racial prejudice can indeed be directed at white people (e.g., “White people can’t dance”) but is not considered racism because of the systemic relationship to power. When backed with power, prejudice results in acts of discrimination and oppression against groups or individuals. In Canada, white people hold this cultural power due to Eurocentric modes of thinking, rooted in colonialism, that continue to reproduce and privilege whiteness. It is whiteness that has the power to define the terms of racialized others’ existence.

[Andy_Faber]

Thats a shame, because you will continue with your ignorance then.

You might also want to consider this before making stupid false accusations of racism.

While assumptions and stereotypes about white people do exist, this is considered racial prejudice, not racism. Racial prejudice refers to a set of discriminatory or derogatory attitudes based on assumptions derived from perceptions about race and/or skin colour. Thus, racial prejudice can indeed be directed at white people (e.g., “White people can’t dance”) but is not considered racism because of the systemic relationship to power. When backed with power, prejudice results in acts of discrimination and oppression against groups or individuals. In Canada, white people hold this cultural power due to Eurocentric modes of thinking, rooted in colonialism, that continue to reproduce and privilege whiteness. It is whiteness that has the power to define the terms of racialized others’ existence.

So you're saying you're not racist, you're just racially prejudiced?

[swaledale]

Fair comment Ram. I’m genuinely sorry about your mate but I’m actually not being in any way complacent.

My life, imo, in the current circumstances has fewer risks than the average teacher, hospital worker, shop worker etc.

I kind of agree with you about ‘a few more weeks lost education’ however it’s not just that. There’s a huge economic implication of the child minding service provided by schools being shut that is perhaps only now being recognised.
That is actually the genuine driving force behind schools being opened asap. I don’t want the cost of that to be sick and dying teachers.

To be honest rA looking at the facts, opening up schools is not an issue because of sick and dying teachers, otherwise they would close down everything because anyone who comes into contact with other people is at risk, shop workers, transport workers medical staff, care workers, police and so and so forth.

Schools are closed because of their established role in children being infection spreaders, if that were not the case they would be open. The research shows that teachers do not have a greater risk of catching Covid-19 in the main and lets face it, they are able to deal with the same set of people day in day out in socially distanced circumstances, the other groups I've mentioned come face to face with hundreds of different people from different parts of the country daily a much greater risk and social distancing isn't always possible.

The only reason care workers are early on in the process is because they tend to deal with older or more vulnerable people.

Its a good strategy to vaccinate those most at risk of dying or being incapacitated by Covid as that will reduce hospital admissions and deaths. vaccinating teachers won't do that nor will it stop schoolchildren from being transmitters of the infection .

[MadAmster]

So, looking at the "to teach or not to teach" situation we have a few things to address.

By not teaching we get
Mental health issues for children.
Children missing out on education.
Children missing out on social and emotional growth.
Children subjected to physical and seksual abuse at home.
Parents unable to work which is not good for the economy.

By teaching we get
A vast reduction in mental health issues for children.
Children not missing out on education.
Children not missing out on social and emotional growth.
Children not subjected to physical and seksual abuse at home.
Parents able to work which is good for the economy.

The above shows the (dis-) advantages of kids being in school. A knock on effect of them going back to school would be parents feeling less inadequate because they no longer have to "teach" their kids things they don't always understand themselves.

Another thing that is bad for kids is the opening and then closing again of schools or individual classes being sent home because the teacher is ill.

What those in power need to do is to decide what the priority for the kids is and then take the necessary decisions for their, and the country's, future prosperity.

My opinion is that safeguarding teachers through vaccination will enable the reopening of schools and that will have beneficial effects on the mental health of the kids, the mental health of the parents, the economy in the short term as the parents can work and the economy in the long term as it will give kids the chance to catch up somewhat on what they've missed thus far (many won't ever get back to where they would have been without the closing of schools, if any) or, at worst, not fall further behind than they already are.

Weighing up the pros and cons, it does seem to make sense to vaccinate teachers to the benefit of very many others as well as that of the country.

I'd like to suggest another group for priority vaccination. Overweight (BMI of over 25) males in the age range 60 to 75. It seems they make up the majority of patients in the ICU. A Dutch ICU specialist has said that vaccinating that group would see 90% less Covid patients needing ICU treatment. If the aim is to reduce the stress on hospitals in general and ICUs in particlular then this would appear to be a genuine priority group.

[swaledale]

So you're saying you're not racist, you're just racially prejudiced?

Generally when your in a hole one stops digging but it seems your not astute enough to realise that.


How many times do you have to be told something to understand something? Or do you just blather on because your embarrassed to admit that you and GP were wrong?

As I did not express prejudice against a particular race I was neither racist or racially prejudiced thats a fact, which I've clearly explained.

You and the posters that said this are wrong end of.

[Andy_Faber]

Generally when your in a hole one stops digging but it seems your not astute enough to realise that.


How many times do you have to be told something to understand something? Or do you just blather on because your embarrassed to admit that you and GP were wrong?

As I did not express prejudice against a particular race I was neither racist or racially prejudiced thats a fact, which I've clearly explained.

You and the posters that said this are wrong end of.

The trouble is, mud tends to stick, especially to those who've been lobbing some themselves

[ramAnag]

To be honest rA looking at the facts, opening up schools is not an issue because of sick and dying teachers, otherwise they would close down everything because anyone who comes into contact with other people is at risk, shop workers, transport workers medical staff, care workers, police and so and so forth.

Schools are closed because of their established role in children being infection spreaders, if that were not the case they would be open. The research shows that teachers do not have a greater risk of catching Covid-19 in the main and lets face it, they are able to deal with the same set of people day in day out in socially distanced circumstances, the other groups I've mentioned come face to face with hundreds of different people from different parts of the country daily a much greater risk and social distancing isn't always possible.

The only reason care workers are early on in the process is because they tend to deal with older or more vulnerable people.

Its a good strategy to vaccinate those most at risk of dying or being incapacitated by Covid as that will reduce hospital admissions and deaths. vaccinating teachers won't do that nor will it stop schoolchildren from being transmitters of the infection .

I think the point is, Swale, that we don’t know the school based risks since the new variant(s) came into play.

Schools were largely open between September and Christmas and that doubtless contributed significantly to the situation which raised its head immediately before Christmas.

Then the government belatedly acknowledged the presence of at least one of what I believe to be several new variants. We were told by Johnson and Hancock that the new ‘British’ variant was much more transmissible and possibly more dangerous to children, although I accept that there seems to have been some backtracking from that second claim.

Since then schools have been operating a much reduced service, remaining open for the ‘vulnerable’ and the children of ‘critical/key’ workers.

Now there is pressure to return to normal from March 8th. I actually don’t blame the PM for that...we all know where such pressure comes from but, possibly cabin crew apart, I’m struggling to think of another group of workers who are likely to have to spend over six hours confined in a small closed classroom sized environment in the company of thirty other individuals.

With that in mind...if society wants teachers to return to fully providing the education/child minding service that society depends on then two things need to happen imo...an effective testing process needs to be in place and teachers need to be vaccinated.

I know I’m banging on about schools - it’s an area I know and care about - and I’m sure teachers are not alone...but for all those who doubt, consider this...we can’t fly, go to the pub, enjoy a meal out, go to a football match, visit the cinema/theatre while most who normally work in offices are working from home and the chamber of the House of Commons is always conspicuously empty...and yet we expect teachers (and certain others) to carry on regardless.

Can’t help wondering how comfortable you and any other doubters would feel today if told you had to spend the next six plus hours in a small room with thirty other people.

[Trickytreesreds]

The trouble is, mud tends to stick, especially to those who've been lobbing some themselves

mostly non teflon ***