O/T. The Government's handling of Covid

[Geoff Parkstone]

I really do hope you guys are right and not just guilty of complacency.
Amongst all the back slapping let’s just remember that we in the UK are potential ‘guinea pigs’. The vaccine has been developed astonishingly quickly and hasn’t been tested to the same extent as others.
I sincerely hope, and believe, that you’re better off having it than not having it...but let’s not forget than most of those in charge have screwed up monumentally in almost every other aspect of handling the pandemic.
It’s very early days...less back slapping complacency and politicking about other countries please.

Amongst the 20 odd million shots that we have injected, I don't believe anyone has suffered from a thromboid. MA's figures speak of 6 non fatalities in Europe's 17m. I havent seen reports of anything in the US. I'd guess that maybe 40m AZ vaccinations have been dispensed globally with 0 fatalities reported. I like those odds - statistically I'd even like them if 40 fatalities had been reported.

As Andy has inferred - you do the math. Nothing in life is risk free, but this is as near to it as I've seen before. Mind how you go driving to the shops this week - you are way way more likely to be killed in a traffic accident doing that. And dont even think of flying to a holiday destination, a (DV)T is far more likely than an (AZ)T

[ramAnag]

It’s not politicking when the only one of my Spanish friends to be vaccinated is (as mentioned a while ago) a nurse friend who got it done in Belfast. Even my ex gardener Michael is unvaccd and he is 67 with a heart condition. Do you understand the numbers here rA?

I understand Andy, it’s just the ‘no skin off my nose’, ‘you couldn’t make it up’, ‘article 16’ references begin to grate a little.

As I say...I think (from an entirely unqualified perspective) that our government has done a good job with the vaccines, but I recognise that a) the jury is still out on that one b) we (humankind) should be all in this together and c) even from a selfish point of view...there is little point in the UK being vaccinated if the rest of the world isn’t.

[ramAnag]

After playing in front of around 65,000 fans for the first two India v England T20 matches they’ve now decided that the remaining three games are to be played behind closed doors because of rising Covid cases. Big surprise! Will we never learn?

[Geoff Parkstone]

I did wonder if that was wise

[Andy_Faber]

I understand Andy, it’s just the ‘no skin off my nose’, ‘you couldn’t make it up’, ‘article 16’ references begin to grate a little.

As I say...I think (from an entirely unqualified perspective) that our government has done a good job with the vaccines, but I recognise that a) the jury is still out on that one b) we (humankind) should be all in this together and c) even from a selfish point of view...there is little point in the UK being vaccinated if the rest of the world isn’t.

I disagree because I’m part of the U.K. and given my various conditions Covid would probably have killed me, the vaccine won’t. Worthy as it is to think of GP’s allegorical Samoan fisherman from 3000 posts ago I’m afraid I’ll settle for a bit of selfishness ta

The other point is that I am certainly not celebrating the EU’s foolhardiness, I don’t think any of us are even TTR, they are KILLING people with their follow like sheep tactics

[Trickytreesreds]

I disagree because I’m part of the U.K. and given my various conditions Covid would probably have killed me, the vaccine won’t. Worthy as it is to think of GP’s allegorical Samoan fisherman from 3000 posts ago I’m afraid I’ll settle for a bit of selfishness ta

The other point is that I am certainly not celebrating the EU’s foolhardiness, I don’t think any of us are even TTR, they are KILLING people with their follow like sheep tactics

I certainly am not celebrating, I just cannot believe the stupidity and stubborness over this.
This is arrogance and contempt, not concern at play here.

On a side note- Thailand has suspended AZ. Thailand purcashed that last Nov. Then in Jan, it mysteriously did a deal with China for 63 million doses?
I have connections there as some of you know. So I have asked.
Lets put it this way, the Thai king has made sure that it easier to travel there from Germany, than here. Of course it has nothing to do (cough) with Germany being his second home and that he is gaining a reputation for parties and extra money. (cough)

That is why, I believe all along that finance is driving this, for many reasons.
Folks have to remember that the AZ vaccine is sold for virtually cost. Pfizer is sold for 6 times as much.
Smells fishy to me.

[ramAnag]

Amongst the 20 odd million shots that we have injected, I don't believe anyone has suffered from a thromboid. MA's figures speak of 6 non fatalities in Europe's 17m. I havent seen reports of anything in the US. I'd guess that maybe 40m AZ vaccinations have been dispensed globally with 0 fatalities reported. I like those odds - statistically I'd even like them if 40 fatalities had been reported.

As Andy has inferred - you do the math. V Nothing in life is risk free, but this is as near to it as I've seen before. Mind how you go driving to the shops this week - you are way way more likely to be killed in a traffic accident doing that. And dont even think of flying to a holiday destination, a (DV)T is far more likely than an (AZ)T

I think you miss my point. I’m obviously with you where the risks are concerned, otherwise I wouldn’t have had the vaccine about a month ago would I? Nothing I know has changed my mind.

Having said that, I hate the jingoism and also understand that being British doesn’t always make us right - or wrong - or immune to variants that come from other parts of the world because their vaccination programmes MAY not be as good as ours.

[Geoff Parkstone]

Well the thrombosis "risk" wasn't known about a month ago....

[swaledale]

There is no known thrombosis risk, and its not the government but medical regulators who are saying this, so rA we can't pin anything on the government, even if some side effect or other does arise from either the Az or Pfizer vaccines.

Given the millions that have had the AZ vaccine, the numbers of those suffering a blood clot seems very low, indeed statistically its insignificant and to date no connection with the vaccine has been established.

The worry over the speed with which the vaccine has been developed is unfounded, certainly in the AZ instance. Development was started over a year ago last February when it was known a Covid/SARS virus was infecting people. The team developing it didn't strat from scratch but based the new vaccine on existing ones, tweaking it to be effective against the new virus. They then got the money required to develop and run the necessary tests, it was the availability of funds which meant they could develop the vaccine faster than usual, not them taking any short cuts.

So given the vaccine base has been used before there is nothing to suggest that it would cause blood clotting.

Now we are vaccinating millions of people, so it is inevitable that some due to pre existing health conditions or even just their individual physiology will have some side effects, but then no medicine is risk free, paracetamol, asprin and ibuprofen can have bad effects on some people yet they are taken by millions across the world.

There seems to be a case of some governments being over cautious in suspending the use of the AZ vaccine, but on a risk based approach, doing this would seem to have more risks than continuing with the programme. Of course it hasn't helped that in Germany and France its been "trashed" before it was even used and therefore people are wary of it, for no good reason as far as the science goes at the moment. That may explain why some governments are taking this step, because they are wary of the reaction from their citizens, who have unjustified fears due to what they have been told.

[MadAmster]

Now we are vaccinating millions of people, so it is inevitable that some due to pre existing health conditions or even just their individual physiology will have some side effects, but then no medicine is risk free, paracetamol, asprin and ibuprofen can have bad effects on some people yet they are taken by millions across the world.

Agree with your whole post Swale but have quoted just the one paragraph and highlighted one clause.

That is precisely the reason I am still a "not yet". There are still no figures that I have been able to find thus far on how people with my physiology, my underlying conditions and my medicine use available. I'm not shy of the odd gamble but when it's my life I'm gambling with, I want more data to work with than there is currently available.

Kudos to those who have already bitten the bullet.

As you say, no medicine is risk free, paracetamol, aspirin and ibuprofen can have bad effects on some people yet they are taken by millions across the world. The difference between paracetamol and AZ/BionTech/Janssen/Moderna is that the former has been in use for decades and there is history. These vaccines are new and the data I want just isn't there. I'd hate my epitaph to be Covid didn't get him but AZ etc did........