O/T. The Government's handling of Covid

[swaledale]

What do you mean 'harder to reach', this isn't bloody Mars. I'd explain the maths to you as I have done with other folk but I've learned that you will not be enlightened by anyone you don't see in mirror image

You have just displayed your complete ignorance of other peoples lives in your post! Its rather ironic that having shown your ignorance, (not for the first time I might add) you then accuse me of not being or wanting to be enlightened!

Still I guess anybody who uses words like xenophobia and casual racism in the wrong context and clearly not understanding what they mean is bound to be a little narrow in his understanding of the world in which we live.

So I guess I'd better explain in words of one syllable so even you can perhaps become a little enlightened.

For a start there are the undocumented, some of whom will be illegal immigrants, they need to be vaccinated for our sakes and they ain't going to be caught by the system.

There are those who are transient, homeless, or living on the fringes of society more than likely not on any NHS list.

There are those in different ethnic and religious groups whose interaction with the system is limited, those who are suspicious of the vaccine, etc. etc.

I could go on but I assume that you even you get the picture, that there are literally millions of people who won't be vaccinated unless extensive efforts are made to to inform them, contact them and offer appropriate access to the vaccine.

I understand that you live in a bubble and assume everyone lives like you and thinks like you and I can more than likely predict your response to the efforts required to ensure as many as possible get vaccinated.

[Andy_Faber]

You have just displayed your complete ignorance of other peoples lives in your post! Its rather ironic that having shown your ignorance, (not for the first time I might add) you then accuse me of not being or wanting to be enlightened!

Still I guess anybody who uses words like xenophobia and casual racism in the wrong context and clearly not understanding what they mean is bound to be a little narrow in his understanding of the world in which we live.

So I guess I'd better explain in words of one syllable so even you can perhaps become a little enlightened.

For a start there are the undocumented, some of whom will be illegal immigrants, they need to be vaccinated for our sakes and they ain't going to be caught by the system.

There are those who are transient, homeless, or living on the fringes of society more than likely not on any NHS list.

There are those in different ethnic and religious groups whose interaction with the system is limited, those who are suspicious of the vaccine, etc. etc.

I could go on but I assume that you even you get the picture, that there are literally millions of people who won't be vaccinated unless extensive efforts are made to to inform them, contact them and offer appropriate access to the vaccine.

I understand that you live in a bubble and assume everyone lives like you and thinks like you and I can more than likely predict your response to the efforts required to ensure as many as possible get vaccinated.

you're still sore about being outed aren't you

[ramAnag]

Andy...I’m genuinely puzzled at your position on this...especially given that you repeatedly identify yourself as the only practising Christian on here.

In a pandemic the mantra that ‘no one is safe until everyone is safe’ is fundamentally true. If we are to overcome Covid and retake control then it is essential that those ‘harder to reach’ groups are vaccinated and that the rich countries of the world provide for those that are poor.

I’d have honestly thought that would appeal to your Christian principles, but instead you just seem to bang on every day about
how wonderful our vaccination figures are. Honestly chap...it isn’t going to make any difference...yes the UK government’s first responsibility is to the citizens of the UK and they may be getting it right compared with some others, but we cannot exist in some sort of mythical splendid isolation.

[swaledale]

you're still sore about being outed aren't you

Blimey you really are quite dim aren't you? How did you in any way "out" me? I mean despite repeated requests you ahve never managed to explain or substantiate those comments.

I just find it so funny that you demonstrated your ignorance that its amusing to remind you of how stupid you look making them. Again perhaps you'd do well to read the definition of those words, I assume you can read?

As is your usual practice (you must be taking a leaf out of the Johnson playbook here) you make an assertion then when given an explanation ignore it.


Ah well given the bull**** and made up nonsense you post its not surprising your unable to recognise facts.

[swaledale]

Andy...I’m genuinely puzzled at your position on this...especially given that you repeatedly identify yourself as the only practising Christian on here.

In a pandemic the mantra that ‘no one is safe until everyone is safe’ is fundamentally true. If we are to overcome Covid and retake control then it is essential that those ‘harder to reach’ groups are vaccinated and that the rich countries of the world provide for those that are poor.

I’d have honestly thought that would appeal to your Christian principles, but instead you just seem to bang on every day about
how wonderful our vaccination figures are. Honestly chap...it isn’t going to make any difference...yes the UK government’s first responsibility is to the citizens of the UK and they may be getting it right compared with some others, but we cannot exist in some sort of mythical splendid isolation.

Your assuming practising Christian a) has a set of principles and b) is capable of understanding reality, which is doubtful. given his propensity to make accusations based on his own peculiar understanding of words!

Anyway rA it can all be explained by simple maths - **** those who are reluctant or unable to be vaccinated get the rest done first, you know it makes sense!

[Andy_Faber]

Andy...I’m genuinely puzzled at your position on this...especially given that you repeatedly identify yourself as the only practising Christian on here.

In a pandemic the mantra that ‘no one is safe until everyone is safe’ is fundamentally true. If we are to overcome Covid and retake control then it is essential that those ‘harder to reach’ groups are vaccinated and that the rich countries of the world provide for those that are poor.

I’d have honestly thought that would appeal to your Christian principles, but instead you just seem to bang on every day about
how wonderful our vaccination figures are. Honestly chap...it isn’t going to make any difference...yes the UK government’s first responsibility is to the citizens of the UK and they may be getting it right compared with some others, but we cannot exist in some sort of mythical splendid isolation.

that deserves a sensible response

I don't agree with the mantra. I've had the vaccine, and all things being equal that makes me at least 60% less likely to catch the virus and 95% less likely to die from it, and the second jab will increase those odds, any booster even more. That didn't need ANY other soul to be vaccinated. that's not selfishhness, that's fact, the same applies to you and its how our response to flu works, we don't rely on the world to take a flu jabs, we rely on ourselves (nb I'm not pretending flu is as serious as Covid but its still a deadly disease)

I think your 'harder to reach' groups and the ones I was disagreeing with (as mentioned by Swale) are different. The Palestinian territories are what I consider harder to reach groups and I've proposed on here and elsewhere that UK take on that task as Israel and The World don't seem keen. If you think offering help to a 99% Muslim territory is unChristian plase pm me the rationale. Swales 'harder to reach' related to UK, where IMO 'we' are expending too much effort on areas of our population where the returns are bound to be low purely due to the maths of it, no reference to any of the -isms.

Its not unChristian to celebrate success, I don't believe in miracles but if I did the vaccination process would come close, and I will keep banging on about it and about the EU administration's abject failure, WITHOUT celebrating the latter because the EU politicians are killing people, including potentially friends of mine.

As an island nation (including The Republic Of Ireland) we CAN exist in splendid isolation, or at least we can make use of a geological anomoly (the sea) to help us in 'the fight'. It was one of HMG's biggest SNAFUs to not drastically limit the inward and outward flow of people early on in the pandemic, an issue I recall you having a say or two on. Other (admittedly less 'connected') island nations have succeeded on this basis

[ramAnag]

that deserves a sensible response

I don't agree with the mantra. I've had the vaccine, and all things being equal that makes me at least 60% less likely to catch the virus and 95% less likely to die from it, and the second jab will increase those odds, any booster even more. That didn't need ANY other soul to be vaccinated. that's not selfishhness, that's fact, the same applies to you and its how our response to flu works, we don't rely on the world to take a flu jabs, we rely on ourselves (nb I'm not pretending flu is as serious as Covid but its still a deadly disease)

I think your 'harder to reach' groups and the ones I was disagreeing with (as mentioned by Swale) are different. The Palestinian territories are what I consider harder to reach groups and I've proposed on here and elsewhere that UK take on that task as Israel and The World don't seem keen. If you think offering help to a 99% Muslim territory is unChristian plase pm me the rationale. Swales 'harder to reach' related to UK, where IMO 'we' are expending too much effort on areas of our population where the returns are bound to be low purely due to the maths of it, no reference to any of the -isms.

Its not unChristian to celebrate success, I don't believe in miracles but if I did the vaccination process would come close, and I will keep banging on about it and about the EU administration's abject failure, WITHOUT celebrating the latter because the EU politicians are killing people, including potentially friends of mine.

As an island nation (including The Republic Of Ireland) we CAN exist in splendid isolation, or at least we can make use of a geological anomoly (the sea) to help us in 'the fight'. It was one of HMG's biggest SNAFUs to not drastically limit the inward and outward flow of people early on in the pandemic, an issue I recall you having a say or two on. Other (admittedly less 'connected') island nations have succeeded on this basis

Having the vaccine is obviously not selfish. Adopting a philosophy of I’ve had it so anyone else can, and it’s their fault if they don’t...is.

We’re in the middle of a pandemic, by definition a global problem...we have two choices...1. Adopt a survival of the fittest ‘we’re alright Jack’ attitude based on some sort of increasingly nationalistic vision or 2. Share knowledge and resources on a global basis to conquer the problem across the world.

Sadly, and surprisingly, you seem to be supporting the former. I don’t actually believe in Jesus, although as a fictional figure I believe there to be no finer role model. You do apparently believe in all that stuff...ask yourself which of 1 or 2 above Jesus would choose.

As for us being ‘protected’ and able to exist in splendid isolation as a result of being an ‘Island Nation’...I’m sorry but that’s just anachronistic and delusional nonsense.

[Andy_Faber]

Having the vaccine is obviously not selfish. Adopting a philosophy of I’ve had it so anyone else can, and it’s their fault if they don’t...is.

We’re in the middle of a pandemic, by definition a global problem...we have two choices...1. Adopt a survival of the fittest ‘we’re alright Jack’ attitude based on some sort of increasingly nationalistic vision or 2. Share knowledge and resources on a global basis to conquer the problem across the world.

Sadly, and surprisingly, you seem to be supporting the former. I don’t actually believe in Jesus, although as a fictional figure I believe there to be no finer role model. You do apparently believe in all that stuff...ask yourself which of 1 or 2 above Jesus would choose.

As for us being ‘protected’ and able to exist in splendid isolation as a result of being an ‘Island Nation’...I’m sorry but that’s just anachronistic and delusional nonsense.

Where was 'fault' mentioned?

Regarding 1 and 2, everything I said points towards 2, but 2 can't happen without a commitment at national level (because sorry that's how the world is organised) to pour multi millions into vaccine development (which I celebrate UK doing), to offering the resulting vaccine at cost (again I celebrate UK for doing that), to pumping waymore than our fair share into Covax etc (celebrate) and to making the 'recipe' for the Oxford vaccine pretty much open source to those willing to sell at cost (yes, celebrate). If that makes me a Nationalist, pass the Union flag

My comment about splendid isolation was tongue in cheek and therafter qualified, the island status IS an advantage, way back in this thread you sang the praises of Jacinda Ahern for using just such an advantage in NZ

[Geoff Parkstone]

Andy: Havent you recognised the rA paradigm that you can sing anyone's praises unless it happens to be Team UK which you simply are allowed to castigate. Its a dark red vein running to his core. Its sad.

[ramAnag]

In disagreeing with the original ‘mantra’ and suggesting that we are all responsible for our own actions you implied, to me at least, that those who choose not to be vaccinated were at fault. I’m actually, partially at least, inclined to agree but that’s what makes them ‘hard to reach’ which was Swale’s first and my (later) point.

Getting the world to work together to defeat the pandemic is the key. There is nothing wrong with celebrating our success as far as the vaccination process is concerned. There is everything wrong with allowing, and even encouraging, politicians - of any country - and others to make claim and counterclaim based on nationalistic rivalry. That’s fine where sport is concerned but horribly unhelpful as far as defeating the pandemic is concerned.

You seem to have returned to ‘I was just joshing’ mode as regards the protection offered via us being an ‘island nation’ Your original comment seemed serious enough however you really can’t compare the UK (population per sq km 275) with NZ (population per sq km 18).

P.S. That ‘contribution’ is complete bollux GP which you have absolutely no evidence for.