NHS Scotland

[baggiematt]

I think the irony of my post was lost on you.

I think we are stronger in a union as a United Kingdom. And as you know, I think we are stronger in a trading union of the European Union. There is strength in numbers.

There will always be more prosperous areas than others. London is the most prosperous area in England. And people on here are saying England should go alone. My point is, when will it stop? Why not annex the West Midlands away from the rest of the UK? Why not leave Cornwall or Wales to flounder as the poorest areas? Its just small mindedness, in my view.

There is a difference with Scotland though. Much of their country is desperate to leave the UK. It's well known they would be worse off without us and we would be better off without them. No one really ever articulates the full strengths of us being united with Scotland...I'm not really sure any exist that benefit England, Wales and Northern Ireland.

If they want it so much, why would we avoid another referendum.

[WBA123]

There is a difference with Scotland though. Much of their country is desperate to leave the UK. It's well known they would be worse off without us and we would be better off without them. No one really ever articulates the full strengths of us being united with Scotland...I'm not really sure any exist that benefit England, Wales and Northern Ireland.

If they want it so much, why would we avoid another referendum.

I'm not sure 'much of the country wants to leave' is a fair reflection. The referendum was 5/6 years ago where they voted to stay and the last Scottish independence poll I saw a few weeks ago was in favour of remaining in the UK rather than leaving. And this business with Sturgeon and Salmond probably won't help support the leave argument.

Scotland, in my opinion, is an important part of the UK. It doesn't make any sense to me English people who want Scotland to leave the UK, but don't say the same about Wales. Scotland is far more economically self sufficient than Wales.

My guess is that Brexit will lead to the break up of the UK anyway. And I'm sure every Leave voter on here will tell you they knew exactly what they were voting for, including this.

[baggiematt]

I'm not sure 'much of the country wants to leave' is a fair reflection. The referendum was 5/6 years ago where they voted to stay and the last Scottish independence poll I saw a few weeks ago was in favour of remaining in the UK rather than leaving. And this business with Sturgeon and Salmond probably won't help support the leave argument.

Scotland, in my opinion, is an important part of the UK. It doesn't make any sense to me English people who want Scotland to leave the UK, but don't say the same about Wales. Scotland is far more economically self sufficient than Wales.

My guess is that Brexit will lead to the break up of the UK anyway. And I'm sure every Leave voter on here will tell you they knew exactly what they were voting for, including this.

I think it is much of the country; 38% in the last referendum which will have risen post-Brexit given that 62% voted to remain in the EU. 38% isn't a majority but it's a heck of a lot of a country to vote for drastic measures. I bet Wales would be much lower than 38% and there certainly isn't publicised discontent coming out of Wales.

Again though, the argument that Scotland is an important part of the UK...why? What do they give to the rest of the UK that supports that argument?

Much of the literature is around why Scotland should stay in the UK or leave the UK, but no questions appear to be asked about why we are indeed a United Kingdom and given that they have political ideologies ofd holding a second referendum; I feel we should also be considering the impact of an independent Scotland and a reduced United Kingdom.

I just see that Scotland has many expensive socialist policies (prescriptions, uni fees) without the means of funding it through increased taxation. So guess what, the rest of the UK pays for it. Seems like they get a great deal to me.

[WBA123]

I think it is much of the country; 38% in the last referendum which will have risen post-Brexit given that 62% voted to remain in the EU. 38% isn't a majority but it's a heck of a lot of a country to vote for drastic measures. I bet Wales would be much lower than 38% and there certainly isn't publicised discontent coming out of Wales.

Again though, the argument that Scotland is an important part of the UK...why? What do they give to the rest of the UK that supports that argument?

Much of the literature is around why Scotland should stay in the UK or leave the UK, but no questions appear to be asked about why we are indeed a United Kingdom and given that they have political ideologies ofd holding a second referendum; I feel we should also be considering the impact of an independent Scotland and a reduced United Kingdom.

I just see that Scotland has many expensive socialist policies (prescriptions, uni fees) without the means of funding it through increased taxation. So guess what, the rest of the UK pays for it. Seems like they get a great deal to me.

I think you've answered the question there. Discontent in Scotland is why some English people want them toleave the United Kingdom. Whereas there is little of it in Wales.

In answer to your next question, I would say there are lasting industries in Scotland which Wales and Northern Ireland don't have such as ship building, oil, fishing and whisky - these just off the top of my head. There are probably others too that I can't think of.

As for your last point, we can make that argument in abundance with other regions or nations in the UK. Cornwall and Wales being top of the list. Should we cut them off too? Why shouldn't London or the South East annex itself off from the rest of the UK as it is the major economical region? In my view, it would weaken us to break the UK. And the more affluent areas of the UK should support the weaker ones.

Of course, the Tory Government which has been in power for 40 of the last 50 years has neglected some of these places, especially midland/northern towns and cities - including West Bromwich. What we find on here is people cracking off at Scotland. The anger runs in the wrong direction and again, its just small mindedness in my view.

[baggiematt]

I think you've answered the question there. Discontent in Scotland is why some English people want them toleave the United Kingdom. Whereas there is little of it in Wales.

In answer to your next question, I would say there are lasting industries in Scotland which Wales and Northern Ireland don't have such as ship building, oil, fishing and whisky - these just off the top of my head. There are probably others too that I can't think of.

As for your last point, we can make that argument in abundance with other regions or nations in the UK. Cornwall and Wales being top of the list. Should we cut them off too? Why shouldn't London or the South East annex itself off from the rest of the UK as it is the major economical region? In my view, it would weaken us to break the UK. And the more affluent areas of the UK should support the weaker ones.

Of course, the Tory Government which has been in power for 40 of the last 50 years has neglected some of these places, especially midland/northern towns and cities - including West Bromwich. What we find on here is people cracking off at Scotland. The anger runs in the wrong direction and again, its just small mindedness in my view.

You're wrong for suggesting there is anger towards the Scots or that considering an existing arrangement that isn't working for two parties is 'small minded'. it's small minded to stay in an arrangement that isn't suiting it's people just because 'it's nice' to do so or being scared of change. The rhetoric of being stronger in numbers is just an old phrase but holds no weight in actual decision making.

You can name a few industries that are in Scotland but it's not an answer around what they really bring economically. Oil is a volatile industry and will be a temporary industry at it's current value. Fishing is renowned as being a tiny industry as highlighted quite rightly by the anti-brexit brigade. The important articles and reports which talk about a countries worth all state that Scotland would be in dire straights outside of the UK as their economy isn't strong per capita compared to the rest of the UK - mainly because of how strong London is economically. This tells you that we would be economically stronger without them. So if the arrangement isn't working for their people, what is the problem? We won't lose our good relationship with them, we can still trade with them and they will still be an allied nation.

It's their call if they want to leave, as they get the referendum but I haven't talked about other areas because those other areas haven't got a strong political case for change. But if Wales got a strong enough case for change as their people may want to go in a different direction, so be it. But we should always ask the same questions when they arise.

[WBA123]

You're wrong for suggesting there is anger towards the Scots or that considering an existing arrangement that isn't working for two parties is 'small minded'. it's small minded to stay in an arrangement that isn't suiting it's people just because 'it's nice' to do so or being scared of change. The rhetoric of being stronger in numbers is just an old phrase but holds no weight in actual decision making.

You can name a few industries that are in Scotland but it's not an answer around what they really bring economically. Oil is a volatile industry and will be a temporary industry at it's current value. Fishing is renowned as being a tiny industry as highlighted quite rightly by the anti-brexit brigade. The important articles and reports which talk about a countries worth all state that Scotland would be in dire straights outside of the UK as their economy isn't strong per capita compared to the rest of the UK - mainly because of how strong London is economically. This tells you that we would be economically stronger without them. So if the arrangement isn't working for their people, what is the problem? We won't lose our good relationship with them, we can still trade with them and they will still be an allied nation.

It's their call if they want to leave, as they get the referendum but I haven't talked about other areas because those other areas haven't got a strong political case for change. But if Wales got a strong enough case for change as their people may want to go in a different direction, so be it. But we should always ask the same questions when they arise.

I say small minded because many people who put this forward think like 'Little Englanders'. The Brexit vote proved that we have millions of people who think that way.

And a lot of the arguments from English people who want Scotland to leave the UK don't make any sense. Scotland have already voted to stay, the last opinion poll put remain ahead and yet you are saying much of the country wants to leave the UK. There is appetite from some English people for Scotland to leave the UK, but of the other 3 nations in the UK, Scotland is the one that financially benefits us the most.

As for their industry, you can say that about oil for the future, but what about the riches it brought the Thatcher Government in the 80's? Scotland is probably a more prosperous region than some northern parts of England. Why not the clamour to remove them as well? Why not remove all of the poorest parts of the UK from the UK? Its a bizarre position for people on here to clamour for.

And the strength in numbers debate is an important one, especially when it comes to international trade. We were part of a trade union of 500m people, now its 65m. If Scotland goes, without looking at their population figures, I guess that would be another 10%. The higher the population, the better bargaining power we have with other nations. This is just basic common sense.