O/T Which jab have you had?

[Grist_To_The_Mill]

I think you are more up on it than me wanchai but thank you for the heads up. The Spanish Flu reference is very interesting and I will look into it.

I cant remember which poster it was who was very good on medical stuff ( beside Kempo).

Think it was John 2...always good for research.

Indeed yes, reported so well and verbatim that you could easily trace the source of his wisdom.

[WanChaiMiller]

Different solutions to a different problem in a different era though.
I don't think anyone knows whether there are any long term side effects and the authorities are putting pressure on everyone to have it because the alternative would be unacceptable and catastrophic.
I can see their point and it's a balancing judgement call whereby people have to consider the benefits and risks and then make a decision for themselves

The only problem I have with all this is that when learned people are asked about the long term side effects they aren't actually being honest and respond in an evasive way that suggests it's completely safe. In reality they don't actually know

Ive rewritten this.

Yet very similar. I agree, though, this version of a vaccine is new, we cant know 100%.

Vaccines are not completely new. There will be similar stuff and be bodies of research to fall back on. The Oxford team were working in this area of science well before Covid came along. That is why they were able tweak their research and produce the vaccine so quick. They werent starting from scratch.

[ragingpup]

Ive rewritten this.

Yet very similar. I agree, though, this version of a vaccine is new, we cant know 100%.

Vaccines are not completely new. There will be similar stuff and be bodies of research to fall back on. The Oxford team were working in this area of science well before Covid came along. That is why they were able tweak their research and produce the vaccine so quick. They werent starting from scratch.

There was a good Panarama doc about the development of the Oxford virus, and you're right. We already have a long history of developing vaccines for virus, and many of us have one annually already. It was produced quickly by the Oxford, and other teams, as it was more adjusting, tweaking, refining existing formula that we already use/know and trust without conspiracies.

Love the shock-horror posts about the Government actually having different strategies to pursuade/cajole/legislate on their populations. No **** guys!

[the_idiotb_stardson]

I don't quite know what to make of that reply Raging?

So using the euphemisms of "persuade , cajole and legislate' for the government nudge units ( it is I would argue more appropriate to use terms like "scare" and "manipulate" but I won't quibble) of which you are aware ("no shi t") you then gobble up info from the state-media, BBC 1 Panorama.

So you are saying I know I am being cajoled but believe the media that does the cajoling.

Insanity surely?

[Grist_To_The_Mill]

Quite amusing is this thread

We trust the pilot not to crash the plane when we fly abroad
We trust the bus driver not to crash the bus
We trust that the landlord at the pub hasn't pissed in the beer
We trust that the restaurant staff have followed hygiene rules
We trust the pharmacist hasn't mixed up the pills on the prescription

Yet here we are, one of the most successful vaccine roll outs in human history yet there are naysayers trying to rubbish it and put statistics up that are literally 1 in a million events and still probably unconnected

Hilarious

Let's go back to sticking kids up chimneys, bear baiting and eating smashed up herbs from the local witch

[great_fire]

For what purpose?

For more power.

Blair has always been power-crazed, as well as having a messiah complex.

[great_fire]

There was a good Panarama doc about the development of the Oxford virus, and you're right. We already have a long history of developing vaccines for virus, and many of us have one annually already. It was produced quickly by the Oxford, and other teams, as it was more adjusting, tweaking, refining existing formula that we already use/know and trust without conspiracies.

That's actually untrue, only the Chinese vaccines are traditional vaccines like the one we use for flu (inactivated vaccines).

The Oxford one is an adaptation of the one they were working on to treat MERS in Saudi Arabia.

You can see the different types of vaccine here:

https://www.vaccines.gov/basics/types

As you can see the viral vector vaccines like the Oxford one and Sputnik 5 and messenger RNA vaccines like the Pfizer and Moderna ones have only been used on a wide scale to treat Covid.

[the_idiotb_stardson]

Quite amusing is this thread

We trust the pilot not to crash the plane when we fly abroad
We trust the bus driver not to crash the bus
We trust that the landlord at the pub hasn't pissed in the beer
We trust that the restaurant staff have followed hygiene rules
We trust the pharmacist hasn't mixed up the pills on the prescription

Yet here we are, one of the most successful vaccine roll outs in human history yet there are naysayers trying to rubbish it and put statistics up that are literally 1 in a million events and still probably unconnected

Hilarious

Let's go back to sticking kids up chimneys, bear baiting and eating smashed up herbs from the local witch

You trust in all the above?

There are 3 on your list which I definitely DO NOT take for granted.

As for
"Let's go back to sticking kids up chimneys, bear baiting and eating smashed up herbs from the local witch"

Why not give people fresh air and sunlight before we think about graduating?

[the_idiotb_stardson]

For more power.

Blair has always been power-crazed, as well as having a messiah complex.

Hence the staged arrival at Downing Street, in which people were paid to wave flags for him.....it was then made to look 'spontaneous'

[KerrAvon]

Quite amusing is this thread

We trust the pilot not to crash the plane when we fly abroad
We trust the bus driver not to crash the bus
We trust that the landlord at the pub hasn't pissed in the beer
We trust that the restaurant staff have followed hygiene rules
We trust the pharmacist hasn't mixed up the pills on the prescription

Yet here we are, one of the most successful vaccine roll outs in human history yet there are naysayers trying to rubbish it and put statistics up that are literally 1 in a million events and still probably unconnected

Hilarious

Let's go back to sticking kids up chimneys, bear baiting and eating smashed up herbs from the local witch

I agree with Grist (I've always wanted to say that). I think that there are many valid criticisms of the UK's response to Covid, but when the dust settles, our approach to vaccination will be seen as first rate - from the early investment in the AZ vaccine, through the early and generous ordering and into the 12 week gap strategy and slick roll out . We should be thanking our good fortune.

The treatment of Astra- Zenica has been shameful. Vaccines are not part of their usual business, but they were persuaded to work with Oxford University by the government. They have been rewarded for their efforts by being used as a smokescreen by European politicians who are trying to hide their failings and being bombarded with media scare stories (some of them driven by one of raging's favourites - Russia Today).

If we are smart, we should hold out the vaccine response as a model for a post-Brexit economy - tech and science friendly and where innovation is rewarded. Sadly, I don't think we are smart.