Magpie Circle Altrincham Preview

[the_anticlough]

Played seven of the first eight league games. If there has been a time this season when we have looked like a team capable of ‘running through this league’ it was then (Altrincham and Barnet games, winning at Sutton), although we still had some pretty clear frailties IMO. To be honest I think since we got relegated we’ve looked like a slightly above average National League team, apart from when Roberts has been playing. He’s good enough to have that kind of effect on a team at this level.

Otherwise, I dunno what performances you’re looking to replicate? Our three best since Roberts got injured have, IMO, been Dagenham at home which is impossible to try and recreate for obvious reasons and the last two games.

Think back to the period just after we lost Roberts - Nov to early Feb and Halifax away, Chesterfield away win, Wealdstone (win) Woking win, Stockport wins (home and away). And don't discount a) the Daggers performance with 10 men once the midfield was unlocked and those early games with Roberts when it was others shining as well.

There have been games and periods in games where we looked just too good for this league - and although it seems this flew past our own supporters I'm sure it wasn't lost on the rest of the league, who I think will be pretty mystified at our total collapse.

The times we've looked the most creative and potent we had a fluid 4-2-3-1 with Roberts, Boldewijn, Rodrigues, Sam playing behind and in and around the striker (which was Wootton on better form, although it doesn't have to be him, I guess). It fact Wootton seem to thrive when having these creative players around him. I've watched every home game and I know when I've been entertained and when I haven't and it's been when these players were given the freedom to express themselves. It's really not so hard to remember and the film evidence is there.

And the really disappointing thing is that this approach seemed to be what Burchnall was talking about with his 'attacking football' players who like to get on the ball' 'taking risks in the final third'. But no, he wants 5 recognised defenders in a 5-3-2 and the creative players as far away from the team as possible.

Even if it didn't come off, at least we could say we went out having a go instead of the defensive, boring whimper we have gone out with.

[the_anticlough]

I really hope you are wrong, but I'm not sure that you will be. I have been seriously underwhelmed by what Burchnall has shown us so far, but it will take a fair bit longer for me to call for his sacking whatever happens this season. It's obviously a long term plan from the owners, but the short term was bloody important as well given the position he inherited. My only hope for the next month is that we are one of those teams who are distinctly average for much of the season, but then hit a rich vein of form and sneak into the playoffs, and then use it to beat teams who have been better than us over the whole season. The games are starting to run out, but there are still enough left. I say that more in hope than expectation.

Yeah I hope I'm wrong as well - no pleasure in being proved right on this one.
And I'm not calling for his sacking either. But like for all managers it's a results game and there have to be targets. This one was obvious from the start wasn't it? - Play Offs

[jacobncfc]

Think back to the period just after we lost Roberts - Nov to early Feb and Halifax away, Chesterfield away win, Wealdstone (win) Woking win, Stockport wins (home and away). And don't discount a) the Daggers performance with 10 men once the midfield was unlocked and those early games with Roberts when it was others shining as well.

There have been games and periods in games where we looked just too good for this league - and although it seems this flew past our own supporters I'm sure it wasn't lost on the rest of the league, who I think will be pretty mystified at our total collapse.

The times we've looked the most creative and potent we had a fluid 4-2-3-1 with Roberts, Boldewijn, Rodrigues, Sam playing behind and in and around the striker (which was Wootton on better form, although it doesn't have to be him, I guess). It fact Wootton seem to thrive when having these creative players around him. I've watched every home game and I know when I've been entertained and when I haven't and it's been when these players were given the freedom to express themselves. It's really not so hard to remember and the film evidence is there.

And the really disappointing thing is that this approach seemed to be what Burchnall was talking about with his 'attacking football' players who like to get on the ball' 'taking risks in the final third'. But no, he wants 5 recognised defenders in a 5-3-2 and the creative players as far away from the team as possible.

Even if it didn't come off, at least we could say we went out having a go instead of the defensive, boring whimper we have gone out with.

I have to say I think you’re remembering some of those games with pretty rose tinted glasses. Of those games you’ve mentioned:

Halifax A - Game they had the better chances in, albeit Turner threw away two points at the end
Woking H - Dull game against a poor team settled by a late goal
Chesterfield A - Deserved to lose, needed two injury time set pieces to bail us out against a team in the relegation zone
Wealdstone H - Good game, but against a team which has conceded about 7 million goals this season and played bizarrely open
Stockport H - Good win, but a game with very few chances
Stockport A - Trophy game against their reserves

I kind of agree that we have the players to be doing much better, and on occasion we have looked fantastic. The problem is that those occasions have generally only lasted for about 20 minutes, let alone a run of games. This suggests to me that there’s a pretty fundamental mentality/structure/whatever problem and it really isn’t a case of just ‘stick those players in those positions and watch us go’.

[laddo]

Target at start of this season for NA = promotion.

Target when IB took over = Play offs

The first seemed unlikely, as does now the second.

Both = NL next season.

4-2-3-1 is my choice as well but NA tinkered with the formation and changed it so many times must have been confusing for the players. We know why he used so many formations, none produced consistent good/above average perfomances. NA was looking for the right starting XI and right formation as much at the end of his tenure as much as he did at the start of the season.

[magpie_mania]

I have to say I think you’re remembering some of those games with pretty rose tinted glasses. Of those games you’ve mentioned:

Halifax A - Game they had the better chances in, albeit Turner threw away two points at the end
Woking H - Dull game against a poor team settled by a late goal
Chesterfield A - Deserved to lose, needed two injury time set pieces to bail us out against a team in the relegation zone
Wealdstone H - Good game, but against a team which has conceded about 7 million goals this season and played bizarrely open
Stockport H - Good win, but a game with very few chances
Stockport A - Trophy game against their reserves

I kind of agree that we have the players to be doing much better, and on occasion we have looked fantastic. The problem is that those occasions have generally only lasted for about 20 minutes, let alone a run of games. This suggests to me that there’s a pretty fundamental mentality/structure/whatever problem and it really isn’t a case of just ‘stick those players in those positions and watch us go’.

Anticlough says it's a results game

We were fourth with games in hand. We were looking at whether we might (unlikely but possible) get to the top.

We got there with points, which we got with results.

[LaxtonLad]

Good post UTM but might it just have been an open and shut case of under-performing manager gets sacked?

Ardley said repeatedly that the owners were more interested in the fair score rather than the actual score as a way of judging a manager's performance.

The fair scores in the last few months of Ardley's spell as manager, if I'm understanding things correctly, showed that we were creating very little and conceding lots of chances. We obtained some decent results, but they were thanks to poor finishing by our opponents and goals out of nothing for us.

Could it be that simple?

Wot's a "fair score"?

[jacobncfc]

Anticlough says it's a results game

We were fourth with games in hand. We were looking at whether we might (unlikely but possible) get to the top.

We got there with points, which we got with results.

If you think we were looking like a team capable of ‘running through this league’ then fair play, we disagree.

IB’s results in his first eight aren’t even that different to NA’s last eight, the rot had set in. Which isn’t to say that he doesn’t deserve questions for being unable to turn that around, and indeed making it slightly worse, but this idea that all was going swimmingly and a new manager’s just come in and blown it up is... fanciful at best.

[the_anticlough]

I kind of agree that we have the players to be doing much better, and on occasion we have looked fantastic. .

Well isn't that something, maybe the only thing, to build on? And add to that list, the games before (looking past Roberts) and after.

When it's only 1 up, you have to find a formula to be fantastic or 1 of the other 23 will do...

So you have fantastic, ordinary, interesting, OK, solid but limited...which of those versions do you look to recapture. As you say, Ardley made a hash of harnessing what he might have had (might've invented a tongue twister there ) but isn't looking fantastic kind of interesting information for a manager, incumbent or incoming?

Anyway, Magpie Mania said it better than me.... in 4th with games in hand to 10th and looking out of it.

As Marlon would say 'You don't understand. We could have had class. We could have been a contender. We could've been somebody, instead of a bum, which is what we are, let's face it'

[lunaspie]

As Marlon would say 'You don't understand. We could have had class. We could have been a contender. We could've been somebody, instead of a bum, which is what we are, let's face it'

I'm still waiting for a Stella performance under this manager.

[SwalePie]

I'm still waiting for a Stella performance under this manager.

I'd be happy if we even got a Home Ales one.