Maurice Ross Sacked

[Elite_Pie]

First time poster here...but can't resist adding two cents on this.

I live in Kenya and one of the biggest jokes made about athletes is about fake birth certificates (so they can compete a junior levels for longer and get noticed by sponsors). It's not a great comment by MR, but in my book also far from the worst. In any other walk of life, I would expected this situation to be handled through an internal disciplinary, without the perpetrator being sacked or resigning.

But I think the big picture here is that racist abuse (going way further) is still a big issue in football. I suspect everyone on this board has witnessed it...and it's not the people being overly sensitive, snowflakes getting offended, kind. Personally, I can't think of an instance outside of football where I have witnessed the level of abuse that I've seen hurled freely, typically by an individual or at worst a very small group of fans, at games.

There are a lot of issues with the leadership of the modern game, but I think that the focus from top to bottom on kicking racism out is right and necessary.

If there was a continuum for these things, my guess is that most of us would agree that this was a relatively low level offense. But you can only set the tone by what you can control. In this case, is it OK for a coach on the touchline to use a racist trope to express his frustration about his own player?

I have sympathy for MR. It feels like he's falling foul of example setting and that far worse comments will be made and go unpunished every week. But I can't escape agreeing that the zero tolerance policy is right. There shouldn't be any ambiguity that racism has no place in the stands, on the touch-line, on pitch or on social media. And if you draw the line anywhere other than zero-tolerance, you have a minefield to navigate. From his actions this week, I feel like he get's it. I hope this doesn't stop him getting other opportunities in the game - this should not be career ending and he certainly seemed to have a drive and intensity that we've been missing.

As for his frustrations with the players...that was plain to see in his interview last week. And frankly who amongst us hasn't had them this season?

Excellent and rational summary.

[laddo]

Tbf a few of the posts on this thread fully deserve a condescending reply. As always I'm happy to deliver but no need this times as others have rightly stepped up.

I'm back in on this thread, certainly worth keeping an eye on.

[Notts78]

I think some of those who see no harm in MR’s comment should run a social experiment. Go in to Nottingham and randomly stop black men, ask them how old they are, before telling them they must be lying and they must have a doctored African passport.
Although not exactly the same as MR it’s similar enough to see what kind of reaction you get. Let me know how you get on 😎

[Freeman25]

Looks good on paper I'm not sure what it actually means.

Somehow this doesn't shock me

So if he calls a white player lazy it's ok.

Yes

But because the player is black he cant allude to him being lazy?

No, he can call people lazy all he likes, for the record he didn't even say Enzio was lazy, he said he moved like a 40 year old, which could just mean slow, that's not the point and you seem to keep missing it. It's the suggestion of him having a dodgy african passport that makes it racist. If he finished his sentence with "He looks like he's moving like a 40 year old" nobody bats an eylid.

Yes a wrong lazy analogy was used which can be interpreted as being rascist by some.

So you do get it? Whats the problem?

Like I said before would it have been ok to compare his mobility to that of captain tom..?

If he said "Enzio moves like an old man" I'm fairly sure everyone moves on pretty quickly from it. I can't imagine he'd have made many friends criticising the longest serving player currently at the club behind his back to his team mates though

Your bit about a stone and a brick sounds lovely but in reality is BS..
Of course there are different levels of abuse whether it be racial or otherwise.

My point is that any racism is wrong, all of it does damage and all of it should be gone from football and daily life in general, if you disagree with that I can't really help you...

I Still dont know why they couldn't sit down over a coffee (black or white) and sort it out. Seems so much simpler to do it that way and more constructive as the issue seems to be about race now and not whether Ross had a point about Enzios capabilities as a player?

Superb time for a black or white joke

Just a thought Freeman have you ever experienced racism or read about but in a book.
The reason I ask is simply because there are very different levels of racism from low level water of a duck's back, angst to outright fury.
So yes it does matter if it was a stone that was thrown or a brick ....
What a really stupid and ignorant analogy...infact world beating...
But I wouldn't want you removed from your job for using it,I would hope you could learn from it.

As explained earlier, you've completely missed the point I was making, which is unfortunate because I tried to make it as simple as possible... A stone would damage a window and a brick would damage it more, but either way it's broken and shouldn't be.

As for "wanting me removed from my job"... Maurice Ross was not removed, in his own words that have been quoted in this topic -

"I had to resign. I did it instantly."

Because he knew he was in the wrong and shouldn't have said it, he also said the club acted impeccably. Why are you still trying to defend someone that has literally admitted they were in the wrong? Do you think Maurice is just a bit confused or being told to give this statement against his will or something?


Questioning Enzio's character over this, who by the way, hasn't said a word about any of this publicly, shows a lot more about your own character than his by the way.

[crazyfists]

Of course it's racist, he brought up a racial stereotype based on the colour of his skin. We don't need people like that at the club, why even mention his race at all.

[Old_pie]

If he said "Enzio moves like an old man" I'm fairly sure everyone moves on pretty quickly from it.

That's ageism and I'm minded to press the Complain button.

[PedroTheFisherman66]

Can we agree Maurice Ross was at the least, stupid?

1 million % agree

[PedroTheFisherman66]

Good to see you back !

But don't get caught up by the trolls.

'The way Enzio has gone about this whole episode shows poor character' tells us more about the poster than either Enzio or Ross

like I say have you been a victim of racial abuse? I notice you didn't answer that point.
I have, so perhaps my tolerance level is different to yours and the stuff you perhaps have read about ?
If this was considered racism then in my eyes it was very low key and would have been more productive if a meeting and discussion took place behind closed doors and perhaps from this constructive meeting any relevant findings introduced as best practice.
anyway before we go balls deep what about the issue itself , which has been glossed over
is Enzio slow around the pitch and lacking in mobility ?
My main concern is that as a player if I had been criticised for playing poorly by my coach I would discuss that and see if there was any justification to it and if so how I could improve.
With what was said I wouldn't have run of crying racism , but that's just me , I suppose I must be racist or cut from a different cloth.

[SwalePie]

First time poster here...but can't resist adding two cents on this.

I live in Kenya and one of the biggest jokes made about athletes is about fake birth certificates (so they can compete a junior levels for longer and get noticed by sponsors). It's not a great comment by MR, but in my book also far from the worst. In any other walk of life, I would expected this situation to be handled through an internal disciplinary, without the perpetrator being sacked or resigning.

But I think the big picture here is that racist abuse (going way further) is still a big issue in football. I suspect everyone on this board has witnessed it...and it's not the people being overly sensitive, snowflakes getting offended, kind. Personally, I can't think of an instance outside of football where I have witnessed the level of abuse that I've seen hurled freely, typically by an individual or at worst a very small group of fans, at games.

There are a lot of issues with the leadership of the modern game, but I think that the focus from top to bottom on kicking racism out is right and necessary.

If there was a continuum for these things, my guess is that most of us would agree that this was a relatively low level offense. But you can only set the tone by what you can control. In this case, is it OK for a coach on the touchline to use a racist trope to express his frustration about his own player?

I have sympathy for MR. It feels like he's falling foul of example setting and that far worse comments will be made and go unpunished every week. But I can't escape agreeing that the zero tolerance policy is right. There shouldn't be any ambiguity that racism has no place in the stands, on the touch-line, on pitch or on social media. And if you draw the line anywhere other than zero-tolerance, you have a minefield to navigate. From his actions this week, I feel like he get's it. I hope this doesn't stop him getting other opportunities in the game - this should not be career ending and he certainly seemed to have a drive and intensity that we've been missing.

As for his frustrations with the players...that was plain to see in his interview last week. And frankly who amongst us hasn't had them this season?

Welcome to the board AfriPie. What a great opening post that is.

[queenslandpie]

like I say have you been a victim of racial abuse? I notice you didn't answer that point.
I have, so perhaps my tolerance level is different to yours and the stuff you perhaps have read about ?
If this was considered racism then in my eyes it was very low key and would have been more productive if a meeting and discussion took place behind closed doors and perhaps from this constructive meeting any relevant findings introduced as best practice.
anyway before we go balls deep what about the issue itself , which has been glossed over
is Enzio slow around the pitch and lacking in mobility ?
My main concern is that as a player if I had been criticised for playing poorly by my coach I would discuss that and see if there was any justification to it and if so how I could improve.
With what was said I wouldn't have run of crying racism , but that's just me , I suppose I must be racist or cut from a different cloth.

You dont seem keen on discussing the context stuff though Pedro do you? Is Enzio generally a bit soft? Well I don't know and neither do you. Did Enzio not have a very good relationship with Ross? Well I don't know and neither do you. Was what Ross said casual low level racist? Well yes it was. You need to split up the issues and apply context.