Those of you who had Covid....

[cherrypie7]

Hiya Cherry.

For women thinking of having children,pregnant or breast feeding the info put about is based on limited research stats.
I would worry about taking the current vaccines if pregnant,my Mum & Grandma also and that covers ages 34,56 & 86 advice wise from people who've been pregnant and myself who has not.

As said in another thread I'm part of a long term medical research programme and will continue in it for many years for a reason.

Like young footballers learning their trade - ability,motivation,lifestyle,understanding tactical knowledge,healthy eating & recovery are points that have to be learnt over time as a training young footballer.

So I do understand reluctance for 'time' in a world that wants everything 'now' particularly in addressing what's the right approach to matters.

In terms of stats playing PL football just 180 kids of the 1.5 million who play organised youth football at any one time will go onto a career in football.Thats just 0.012%.

I'd like to know how many pregnant women are currently in the global vaccination research programmes and the results so far before considered choice.

Just saying.

https://www.rcog.org.uk/globalassets...cision-aid.pdf

Yes, I forgot about pregnant women when I was typing on the phone, in bed. All I know is that the CDC put out a statement a few weeks ago saying that the FDA approved vaccines here in the States are safe for pregnant women and for those who were trying to get pregnant in the near future. The data appears to be mostly on the mRNA vaccines, I think. Please don't quote me on that as I haven't had time to analyze all the numbers. Here is link if interested:
https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2...-pregnant.html

Hope thsi helps.

[hopelesslyoptimistic]

Tried to post a long detailed response a couple of times without success will try with bullet points.

I am not an anti vaxxer I just like people to be able to make clear informed choices and the information of negatives is being suppressed or not put out there clearly.

lots of scientific information out there - try SAGE (papers often have footnote links to other research), ONS, Oxford Uni, Imperial, CDC, John Hopkins and Robin Koch as a starter.

Look at the MHRA vaccination process in normal times - this can’t be followed for obvious reasons - that presents increased risk.

Those under 25 who are fit and healthy are not as at risk as others generally therefore their need to be vaccinated is less (setting aside protecting others as the data on that is not clear)

Naturally acquired immunity is recognised in the UK and is possibly better than vaccine acquired immunity - if I have that I might want to wait good on the vaccine until more time has elapsed.

The vaccine has been great but the UK research published this week shows it is sadly time limited and becomes less effective within 6 months.

The mRNA vaccines are new tech and work differently - they are not as widely understood as trad vaccines - the risks are therefore not as well known.

Some in the USA in the medical profession have expressed concern that symptoms which may be associated with vaccines are being discounted when they need more consideration.

The vaccines are great but not the only panecea and other measures need to still be adopted (as you will see the US is now recommending for the fully vaccinated).

I want people to make informed choices and decisions and not to be be bounced into it. Putting something alien into your arm should be a conscious choice - especially if you hopefully have most of your life ahead of you.

Science should be rigourous and that is what is happening here but there has not been time for the fruits of that rigour to be released as research is ongoing and/or has not been peer reviewed. Some further research will be required.

Despite high levels of vaccination (78%) and naturally acquired immunity combined (look at the infection data for the last 3 months by age) the UK stats are headed back in the wrong direction - thus the vaccines are not the golden bullet at the moment no matter how helpful they are.


Said a lot more in other posts but hope that gives you an idea.

[spaldy]

if an much work had been done on Therapeutics had been done as on vaccines we'd likely be in a different spot.

The governor in FL is setting up clinics throughout the state to give people therapeutics such as Regeneron when symptoms present themselves. will be interesting to see how this plays out.

of course, that would eliminate the control function.

[WTF11]

Tried to post a long detailed response a couple of times without success will try with bullet points.

I am not an anti vaxxer I just like people to be able to make clear informed choices and the information of negatives is being suppressed or not put out there clearly.

lots of scientific information out there - try SAGE (papers often have footnote links to other research), ONS, Oxford Uni, Imperial, CDC, John Hopkins and Robin Koch as a starter.

Look at the MHRA vaccination process in normal times - this can’t be followed for obvious reasons - that presents increased risk.

Those under 25 who are fit and healthy are not as at risk as others generally therefore their need to be vaccinated is less (setting aside protecting others as the data on that is not clear)

Naturally acquired immunity is recognised in the UK and is possibly better than vaccine acquired immunity - if I have that I might want to wait good on the vaccine until more time has elapsed.

The vaccine has been great but the UK research published this week shows it is sadly time limited and becomes less effective within 6 months.

The mRNA vaccines are new tech and work differently - they are not as widely understood as trad vaccines - the risks are therefore not as well known.

Some in the USA in the medical profession have expressed concern that symptoms which may be associated with vaccines are being discounted when they need more consideration.

The vaccines are great but not the only panecea and other measures need to still be adopted (as you will see the US is now recommending for the fully vaccinated).

I want people to make informed choices and decisions and not to be be bounced into it. Putting something alien into your arm should be a conscious choice - especially if you hopefully have most of your life ahead of you.

Science should be rigourous and that is what is happening here but there has not been time for the fruits of that rigour to be released as research is ongoing and/or has not been peer reviewed. Some further research will be required.

Despite high levels of vaccination (78%) and naturally acquired immunity combined (look at the infection data for the last 3 months by age) the UK stats are headed back in the wrong direction - thus the vaccines are not the golden bullet at the moment no matter how helpful they are.


Said a lot more in other posts but hope that gives you an idea.

"Information on negatives is being suppressed or not put out there clearly", statement based on what evidence?

"The vaccine is great........time limited......less effective in 6 months...etc". There are multiple vaccines, and not all have been studied nor is the time limitation relevant (if anything it re-inforces the benefit if a booster vaccination).

"The UK stats are headed back in the wrong direction......" conveniently omitting the break that has been achieved between increased infection rates and hospitalisation with serious illness and/or death, which is entirely down to the vaccination programme (and where the vast majority of new infections are amongst those with no vaccine history!).

Not a single statement of unqualified support for vaccination or recognition of the benefits to the individual nor society of the programme as a whole.

"I'm not an anti-vaxxer", yeah and the Pope isn't Catholic.

[WTF11]

if an much work had been done on Therapeutics had been done as on vaccines we'd likely be in a different spot.

The governor in FL is setting up clinics throughout the state to give people therapeutics such as Regeneron when symptoms present themselves. will be interesting to see how this plays out.

of course, that would eliminate the control function.

Prevention is always better (and immeasurably cheaper), than any attempt at cure.

[hopelesslyoptimistic]

if an much work had been done on Therapeutics had been done as on vaccines we'd likely be in a different spot.

The governor in FL is setting up clinics throughout the state to give people therapeutics such as Regeneron when symptoms present themselves. will be interesting to see how this plays out.

of course, that would eliminate the control function.

Agreed - I recommended to all on here last summer taking high doses of vitamin D and zinc with references to the research etc together with being outside for at least 15 mins each day. Simple stuff not the only answer and only part of the picture but should be part of government advice and it’s not - look up John Campbell or Tim Spectre (both vaccine advocates but based on informed consent btw) and you will find links to the research papers around the world.

Daily use of cool mint mouthwash also is shown to help (studies from a number of countries show this) it helps kill the virus in your throat and nasal passages where it tends to accumulate.

Wear a face covering to protect others and yourself (less protection for the wearer) and if you want to protect yourself too also a plastic face shield.

Don’t stay in close contact with others for prolonged periods outside you usual circle.

Eat healthily.

Get exercise and lose weight.

Some of this you will find is still official UK policy some of it should be me thinks.

Most importantly be nice and be respectful - if someone exercises their own free will accept it as such even if you disagree.

Government in England doesn’t really say much anymore - too hard and no staying power?

[hopelesslyoptimistic]

"Information on negatives is being suppressed or not put out there clearly", statement based on what evidence?

"The vaccine is great........time limited......less effective in 6 months...etc". There are multiple vaccines, and not all have been studied nor is the time limitation relevant (if anything it re-inforces the benefit if a booster vaccination).

"The UK stats are headed back in the wrong direction......" conveniently omitting the break that has been achieved between increased infection rates and hospitalisation with serious illness and/or death, which is entirely down to the vaccination programme (and where the vast majority of new infections are amongst those with no vaccine history!).

Not a single statement of unqualified support for vaccination or recognition of the benefits to the individual nor society of the programme as a whole.

"I'm not an anti-vaxxer", yeah and the Pope isn't Catholic.

Once more you revert to abuse, denigration and insults - I have set out in summary for Cherry where I was coming from I suppose you want me to footnote references - I have instead explained where you can find the information if you want it - this is a football forum not the Lancet.

I have explicitly said I support and have had the vaccine but I support those who are a little more sceptical and their right to be convinced.

No matter what the subject you manage to be obtuse, opaque, argumentative and misconstrue what is being said.

Let’s just agree to disagree but I know my own mind and what I think - you do not - you seem to have an overriding belief you are right and whomever is your daily target is wrong - no point discussing anything with you it’s is a fruitless waste of time.

When I grew up in Leeds - we had a phrase for that type of person- Waddock.

[WTF11]

Agreed - I recommended to all on here last summer taking high doses of vitamin D and zinc with references to the research etc together with being outside for at least 15 mins each day. Simple stuff not the only answer and only part of the picture but should be part of government advice and it’s not - look up John Campbell or Tim Spectre (both vaccine advocates but based on informed consent btw) and you will find links to the research papers around the world.

Daily use of cool mint mouthwash also is shown to help (studies from a number of countries show this) it helps kill the virus in your throat and nasal passages where it tends to accumulate.

Wear a face covering to protect others and yourself (less protection for the wearer) and if you want to protect yourself too also a plastic face shield.

Don’t stay in close contact with others for prolonged periods outside you usual circle.

Eat healthily.

Get exercise and lose weight.

Some of this you will find is still official UK policy some of it should be me thinks.

Most importantly be nice and be respectful - if someone exercises their own free will accept it as such even if you disagree.

Government in England doesn’t really say much anymore - too hard and no staying power?

"Daily use of coolmint mouthwash is SHOWN to help ......blah blah"...

Another piece of psuedo-science and a statement not based on evidence, simply assertion.....

https://www.healthline.com/health/in...d#expert-input

Just one of many articles publicly available and quoting representatives of the mouthwash manufacturers that discount mouthwash as. Covid control mechanism.

Not hard to find this and others, but wouldn't support your assertions would they?

[WTF11]

Once more you revert to abuse, denigration and insults - I have set out in summary for Cherry where I was coming from I suppose you want me to footnote references - I have instead explained where you can find the information if you want it - this is a football forum not the Lancet.

I have explicitly said I support and have had the vaccine but I support those who are a little more sceptical and their right to be convinced.

No matter what the subject you manage to be obtuse, opaque, argumentative and misconstrue what is being said.

Let’s just agree to disagree but I know my own mind and what I think - you do not - you seem to have an overriding belief you are right and whomever is your daily target is wrong - no point discussing anything with you it’s is a fruitless waste of time.

When I grew up in Leeds - we had a phrase for that type of person- Waddock.

"Abuse, denigration and insults". Please point out where I abuse, denigrate or insult you in my post.

I do question your impartiality and the veracity of your statements, is that what you refer to? I've had a look at your other post too, wasn't hard to find authoritative statements (from those who have a real interest in mouthwash being effective against Covid) that debunk that particular assertion. We could all start drinking dilute bleaching, as Mr Trump seemed to be advising, you think?

I could easily have found others to do the same to other parts of your post, but it's not worth it. Your version of "informed consent" doesn't match mine, as mine requires those making decisions to be informed whereas yours appears to rely on volume, not veracity.

[hopelesslyoptimistic]

"Abuse, denigration and insults". Please point out where I abuse, denigrate or insult you in my post.

I do question your impartiality and the veracity of your statements, is that what you refer to? I've had a look at your other post too, wasn't hard to find authoritative statements (from those who have a real interest in mouthwash being effective against Covid) that debunk that particular assertion. We could all start drinking dilute bleaching, as Mr Trump seemed to be advising, you think?

I could easily have found others to do the same to other parts of your post, but it's not worth it. Your version of "informed consent" doesn't match mine, as mine requires those making decisions to be informed whereas yours appears to rely on volume, not veracity.

You question my impartiality - how very kind of you - you question. The veracity of my statements yet provide no support for your own - how convenient.

You pull comments on a thread about therapeutics randomly into your critique of my POV on vaccines - bravo.

The stuff on one brand of mouthwash I got last summer from Dr John Campbell who referenced a detailed study which I read and adopted as part of my routine.

Anyway better things to do than justify myself to the Dennis Wise of the forum who has argued with pretty much everyone with a counter view in the last few weeks - what a beautiful example of humanity and respect you are.

For empirical evidence that you are a plonker I refer you to your body voluminous posts on here.

I am glad you are not near any leavers of power or decision making - bad anough listening to your tripe on matters Leeds let alone this.

Will leave you to bash the keyboard a little harder you fearsome warrior yiu.