O/T. The Government's handling of Covid

[ramAnag]

Only you could turn a lesson in numeracy into a polemic on the Brexit vote! So following your lead......

Percentage changes in percentages are a bit tricky to get your head round. lets try it in a way closer to home

In a hypothetical poll 52% voted in a particular way. if 10% more had voted this way, would the vote in favour of the decision have been

(a) 62% or (b) 57.2% or (c) still less than half ?

You or I might think (a). MA would think (b). Swale would think (c)

Sorry...I didn’t actually mean to do that. I was really talking about democracy...especially where single issue complexities are involved.
Does it ever work? I suspect not.

In answer to your question...I’d have thought 62% but then worried about agreeing with you and probably copied off MA...which is, coincidentally, what I did in my General Studies ‘A’ level. There were two 3hr papers...one was all ‘arty farty waffle’ which you’ll be unsurprised to know I excelled at. The other was science, maths and languages, which I was seriously bad at. Fortunately my mate, who’s surname was fortuitously directly before mine so he sat immediately in front of me, was the exact reverse and he put his papers where I could see his answers.
The outcome...I passed...he failed and an initial life lesson was learned. I became a teacher...he became an accountant.

[Trickytreesreds]

Only you could turn a lesson in numeracy into a polemic on the Brexit vote! So following your lead......

Percentage changes in percentages are a bit tricky to get your head round. lets try it in a way closer to home

In a hypothetical poll 52% voted in a particular way. if 10% more had voted this way, would the vote in favour of the decision have been

(a) 62% or (b) 57.2% or (c) still less than half ?

You or I might think (a). MA would think (b). Swale would think (c)

get that man a gold fish
classic

[Ramshank72]

rA: basic employee NIC rates for a person on PAYE are currently 12%

The rate next year will be 13.25%

The increase expressed as a percentage - (13.25-12)/12 = 10.42%

To muddy the waters still further, the 1.25% add on also applies to employers NI contribution - from 13.8% to 15.05%, ie a 9.06% increase;

The self employed NI goes up from 9 to 10.25%, an 11.40% increase

and finally, I promise - dividend tax goes up by 1.25% from 7.5% to 8.75% (for basic rate tax payers) an increase of 16.67%

the MA way of expressing the difference will again be different for higher rate tax payers with dividend tax to pay, but lets not complicate it still further.


The bottom line is that an additional 1.25% will be collected under EENI, ERNI, self employed NI and dividend tax regardless of what the previous rate was.

This is just for the year 2022-23, because for 2023-24 and onwards there will be a seperate 1.25% social care levy and NI rates supposedly will return to current levels. We shall see.

bet you wish you'd never asked now!

Oooh, I like a bit of maths. A 1.25% increase on 12% would be 12.15%

[Geoff Parkstone]

oh don't go confuddling poor old rA any more

[Geoff Parkstone]

Sorry...I didn’t actually mean to do that. I was really talking about democracy...especially where single issue complexities are involved.
Does it ever work? I suspect not.

In answer to your question...I’d have thought 62% but then worried about agreeing with you and probably copied off MA...which is, coincidentally, what I did in my General Studies ‘A’ level. There were two 3hr papers...one was all ‘arty farty waffle’ which you’ll be unsurprised to know I excelled at. The other was science, maths and languages, which I was seriously bad at. Fortunately my mate, who’s surname was fortuitously directly before mine so he sat immediately in front of me, was the exact reverse and he put his papers where I could see his answers.
The outcome...I passed...he failed and an initial life lesson was learned. I became a teacher...he became an accountant.

I guess the moral of the story is that his failure drove his ambition and led him on to greater things

[ramAnag]

I guess the moral of the story is that his failure drove his ambition and led him on to greater things

I think there are two...he learned that doing something out of the kindness of his heart didn’t pay and just devoted his life to counting...oh...and never let me teach maths.

[ramAnag]

Oooh, I like a bit of maths. A 1.25% increase on 12% would be 12.15%

Oh God...not another mathematician...and you’d got off to such a good start.

[Geoff Parkstone]

in fact the moral is that neither of us should teach maths - you cant count and I cant teach

[Andy_Faber]

Does kind of illustrate a point about democracy though. I’m, allegedly, educated (to post graduate level) and relatively intelligent (debatable...I know) and I still don’t really get it. More complex numeracy is, as you know, not one of my strengths, in the same way as I might argue that morality and sensitivity aren’t yours. If that’s true of us then was there really any chance of the proletariat/electorate voting intelligently and with an informed voice over Brexit?

I made a similar point way back in the Brexit thread - as I recall I mentioned that a number of folk on my Facebook friends list asked me, as a known ‘clever tw@t’’ how they could make an informed decision and I responded that was no way of doing so on such a complex issue. I suggested they read up as much as they could on the single subject that mattered most to them and voted on that basis

[ramAnag]

in fact the moral is that neither of us should teach maths - you cant count and I cant teach

Tbf...I can count...I’m even, believe it or not, good with money and financial planning...it’s all the manipulating of figures...equations, more than basic percentages and angles etc that leave me baffled. As for algebra! Give me a break...not a clue!