O/T:- Come on Emma!

[BigFatPie]

Firstly, apologies for chopping up what you said, but I just wanted to address one point you raised.

One thing that membership of Europe did was force employers to discriminate against people from outside the EEA. As an example, a Chinese person could only come to the UK to work if there was no EU applicants who were appointable to a post. The Border Agency/Force had the power (and used it) to review recruitment processes. The onus was on employers to prove that they had exhausted all avenues within the EU before appointing someone from elsewhere in the world.

It's a point must people never realised, but having to recruit within those rules for years, it was something I found disturbing.

Don’t we now have to discriminate against the whole world?

Forward magpie the answer to your quiz question is Barnier. Do I win a prize?

[cher1]

Don’t we now have to discriminate against the whole world?

Forward magpie the answer to your quiz question is Barnier. Do I win a prize?

I think it's usual in most countries of the world to offer the job to residents of that country first, no?

The EU however prevents anyone from India, China, the US, African countries etc from being appointed to a post unless no-one from the relevant country and then the whole of the rest of Europe takes the job. And even insisted that countries weren't allowed to undertake language tests on EU candidates (until someone died at the hands of an EU Dr whose English was poor).

Unless you've seen first hand the results of this policy, it's difficult to understand the impact it had, particularly in medical settings.

[cher1]

Oh god, sorry Swale, just realised I've dragged myself into politics on this thread. Apologies.

[BigFatPie]

I think it's usual in most countries of the world to offer the job to residents of that country first, no?

The EU however prevents anyone from India, China, the US, African countries etc from being appointed to a post unless no-one from the relevant country and then the whole of the rest of Europe takes the job. And even insisted that countries weren't allowed to undertake language tests on EU candidates (until someone died at the hands of an EU Dr whose English was poor).

Unless you've seen first hand the results of this policy, it's difficult to understand the impact it had, particularly in medical settings.

Well yes. Every other economic entity prioritises its workforce so I’m not sure why you would expect the EU single market not to either, though the language requirement you mention is plainly ridiculous. Obviously the UK has done this to such an extent that there are now labour shortages in many different sectors. I don’t know how that’s a good thing.

Forward magpie, I know the right wing press got very excited by Barnier’s comments, so it’s no surprise you have as well. His job was the EU’s chief negotiator in the Brexit talks, in which he ran rings around the UK representatives. He’s now just another French politician seeking election in his own country, and after support from as wide a range of voters as possible, some of those will be anti EU. Big deal. And what does he have to do with Emma Raducanu anyway?

[cher1]

Well yes. Every other economic entity prioritises its workforce so I’m not sure why you would expect the EU single market not to either, though the language requirement you mention is plainly ridiculous. Obviously the UK has done this to such an extent that there are now labour shortages in many different sectors. I don’t know how that’s a good thing

Of course it's not a good thing. But it's no better to restrict the freedom of companies and public organisations to the extent they are forced to appoint people who are less competent than others. And that's exactly what happened. When you can't appoint an outstanding Dr from India who has done their medical degree at a top Indian uni, in English, but you have to appoint someone from the EU instead, that's madness. And terrible for patients. At least now, if a post is left unfilled by a person with a right to work in the UK, it's open to the world. That's a better principle, although tbh I'd like to see the shortage occupation list extended to make the visa process for those from the EU and the rest of the world easier.

And I'd best not even start on the effect of the EWTD on medical training and patient care.

I wish we were still in the EU, but it'd be foolish to suggest there weren't also immense problems within it. I say that as someone who spent a number of years working on the implementation of one piece of EU legislation in an NHS region.

Sorry Swale!