Leeds United - v - Liverpool ***Matchday Thread***

[norfolk white]

Still bitterly disappointed at how our season has started, yesterday it hit home that we don't have a cat in hells chance of ever again competing with the top 4, when scum can pay 475, 000 a week for ronaldo, and the scousers are about to do the same for salah, what hope do we have? The top 6 should indeed have gone to their super duper league on planet greed, and left the premiership a more contested, fairer league, like the championship, which at the moment looks a better place to be, even though I craved for what we have now. I feel bielsa has took us as far as he can, even he can't make Roberts and Cooper Premier league players, the 3 previous seasons should be looked at as a wonderful free flowing football extravaganza and hope/pray we survive this season, which I fear will be bielsas last.

[hopelesslyoptimistic]

Hey Norfolk

Yes we are a long way off but I don’t think the gap is unbridgeable - just takes several years of gradual improvements and being able to increase revenue.

Key for us will be an upgraded stadium - they seem to think 55k won’t be big enough but with a stadium of 60 to 65k we will be massively increasing revenue as a fair bit of the increased revenue will be corporate or premium hospitality seating.

The other element is having rich owners willing to fund or underwrite investment - suspect if Radz can deliver a new stadium and Europe he will either sell up or hugely reduce his stake.

The one thing I don’t think we will
ever overcome is the preferential treatment of Man U and to a lesser degree Liverpool in the media.

We definitely seem to be following the Leicester model a little by investing heavily in young players. In a couple of years we could potentially have 3 or 4 first team regulars from the u23 and maybe one or two more.

Roberts is definitely making progress thought he did okay in difficult circumstances and is becoming more consistent. He won’t reach his peak for another 5 or 6 years.

Yesterday also showed that Cooper will limit progress to the next level much as he has done for us and not sure where Ayling’s ceiling is but not much higher than Cooper’s.

Hope Shackleton gets to play against Newcastle and would like to see Gelhardt get time too.

I would play

Meslier

Shack. Ayling/Koch Cooper Firpo

Phillips

Dallas Klich

Rapha James

Paddy

[WTF11]

Hey Norfolk

Yes we are a long way off but I don’t think the gap is unbridgeable - just takes several years of gradual improvements and being able to increase revenue.

Key for us will be an upgraded stadium - they seem to think 55k won’t be big enough but with a stadium of 60 to 65k we will be massively increasing revenue as a fair bit of the increased revenue will be corporate or premium hospitality seating.

The other element is having rich owners willing to fund or underwrite investment - suspect if Radz can deliver a new stadium and Europe he will either sell up or hugely reduce his stake.

The one thing I don’t think we will
ever overcome is the preferential treatment of Man U and to a lesser degree Liverpool in the media.

We definitely seem to be following the Leicester model a little by investing heavily in young players. In a couple of years we could potentially have 3 or 4 first team regulars from the u23 and maybe one or two more.

Roberts is definitely making progress thought he did okay in difficult circumstances and is becoming more consistent. He won’t reach his peak for another 5 or 6 years.

Yesterday also showed that Cooper will limit progress to the next level much as he has done for us and not sure where Ayling’s ceiling is but not much higher than Cooper’s.

Hope Shackleton gets to play against Newcastle and would like to see Gelhardt get time too.

I would play

Meslier

Shack. Ayling/Koch Cooper Firpo

Phillips

Dallas Klich

Rapha James

Paddy

There is no denying you most certainly live up to your nickname.

The reference to the stadium flies in the face of recently published evidence that ALL PL clubs would be profitable if they closed their turnstiles, and the top flight particularly so. Not denying that a larger capacity wouldn't help, but what's the cost/benefit and when would the investment start to pay for itself? Certainly not a short term issue, and what owner (Radrizzzani or someone with deeper pockets) is going to plan on creating a 55-65k stadium, when we're fighting relegation (which we will be, if current performance is maintained)?

"Roberts is definitely making progress thought he did okay in difficult circumstances and is becoming more consistent. He won’t reach his peak for another 5 or 6 years." Errr, yes, quite, indeed, in a strictly HO-bound universe, nowhere else

Yesterday was a bad day at the office for the majority of the players, yet there is no resilience in the squad that allows for changes to be made (even those that might be seen as keeping the "main" players honest).

Of yesterdays team (starting or as sub)

Meslier - Good, better than last season, but needs a defence he can rely on
Firpo - Maybe a good left back, but not much else, and nowhere near as able (or apparently willing) to contribute in the way that Alioski did - where is the player than can provide the play-making and assist that Alisoki made available?
Ayling - Agree with you, he is at or near his ceiling of performance and isn't getting younger either - where is his replacement?
Llorente - Another Forshaw in the making, incapable of living with the physicality of the PL (can you imagine him playing in the Championship???) - where is his replacement?
Cooper - again, agree with you - where is his replacement?
Phillips - Best player we have, by a country mile. Must feel very much alone sometimes, seeing the performance of those around him
Raphina - Played out of position but still great to watch when on song, needs to be put where he is strongest (No. 10?) and then where does the playmaker come from (your comment regarding Pablo in post #98 is spot on, we haven't replaced him)
Dallas - a latter day Paul Madeley, goes where he is put, performs to his utmost (usually very good), again must feel a tad lonely when many of those around him are screwing up
Rodrigo - Who he? Waste of space and £26m, where is his replacement?
Roberts - Really?
Struijk - One of the best graduates from the "junior" sides of recent times
Harrison - Needs support from the failures behind him, can't beat a whole opposition wing assembly on his own
James - we will see, one game isn't a fair basis for assessment, especially when its against Liverpool
Bamford - Heart of a lion, runs till he drops and makes the mileage count (not a Sacko for sure!), but not clinical enough and not enough on his own. Not a replacement, a strike partner is required.

So, not saying there is anything particularly insightful or scientific about the above, but seems we need 7 players, as either replacements to those who are simply not good enough, e.g. Roberts, or to play in positions currently occupied by square pegs in round holes e.g. Raphina

And the prospects of delving into the loan market, freebies etc? Nil.

[hopelesslyoptimistic]

There is no denying you most certainly live up to your nickname.

The reference to the stadium flies in the face of recently published evidence that ALL PL clubs would be profitable if they closed their turnstiles, and the top flight particularly so. Not denying that a larger capacity wouldn't help, but what's the cost/benefit and when would the investment start to pay for itself? Certainly not a short term issue, and what owner (Radrizzzani or someone with deeper pockets) is going to plan on creating a 55-65k stadium, when we're fighting relegation (which we will be, if current performance is maintained)?

"Roberts is definitely making progress thought he did okay in difficult circumstances and is becoming more consistent. He won’t reach his peak for another 5 or 6 years." Errr, yes, quite, indeed, in a strictly HO-bound universe, nowhere else

Yesterday was a bad day at the office for the majority of the players, yet there is no resilience in the squad that allows for changes to be made (even those that might be seen as keeping the "main" players honest).

Of yesterdays team (starting or as sub)

Meslier - Good, better than last season, but needs a defence he can rely on
Firpo - Maybe a good left back, but not much else, and nowhere near as able (or apparently willing) to contribute in the way that Alioski did - where is the player than can provide the play-making and assist that Alisoki made available?
Ayling - Agree with you, he is at or near his ceiling of performance and isn't getting younger either - where is his replacement?
Llorente - Another Forshaw in the making, incapable of living with the physicality of the PL (can you imagine him playing in the Championship???) - where is his replacement?
Cooper - again, agree with you - where is his replacement?
Phillips - Best player we have, by a country mile. Must feel very much alone sometimes, seeing the performance of those around him
Raphina - Played out of position but still great to watch when on song, needs to be put where he is strongest (No. 10?) and then where does the playmaker come from (your comment regarding Pablo in post #98 is spot on, we haven't replaced him)
Dallas - a latter day Paul Madeley, goes where he is put, performs to his utmost (usually very good), again must feel a tad lonely when many of those around him are screwing up
Rodrigo - Who he? Waste of space and £26m, where is his replacement?
Roberts - Really?
Struijk - One of the best graduates from the "junior" sides of recent times
Harrison - Needs support from the failures behind him, can't beat a whole opposition wing assembly on his own
James - we will see, one game isn't a fair basis for assessment, especially when its against Liverpool
Bamford - Heart of a lion, runs till he drops and makes the mileage count (not a Sacko for sure!), but not clinical enough and not enough on his own. Not a replacement, a strike partner is required.

So, not saying there is anything particularly insightful or scientific about the above, but seems we need 7 players, as either replacements to those who are simply not good enough, e.g. Roberts, or to play in positions currently occupied by square pegs in round holes e.g. Raphina

And the prospects of delving into the loan market, freebies etc? Nil.

😎

accept most of the money comes from TV but need to maximise everything to close the revenue gap.

Think we pretty much agree on most things with the team. Feel a bit for a Firpo has CVD and then first game back is Liverpool with Cooper inside him and outgunned in midfield.

On Robert’s I would much prefer us to have better but he is undoubtedly progressing and getting better and he showed a lot more composure with the ball than Rodrigo did.

Think Rodrigo is a very good player but he just can’t play well against the top sides where he is being played in this system.

Would also like us to see more support for Paddy be it 2 up front - unlikely or more of a there behind him.

At least we have got two hard games out of the way.

Thought Gary Neville summed it up well in that at times we looked too desperate to get forward that we just hit oases that were not on.

If we lose to the barcodes I might become a little more concerned.

[spaldy]

The Leicester model was referenced. I think that's spot on with what we are trying to do.

we have some good U-23's and instead of loans or more big signings we should look to some of them playing. Strujik is very, very good and plays in a way that he doesn't stand out but if you watch what he does he's solid as a prem player 10 years older. Sometimes good is not flashy but very consistent.

would love to see some of the U-23's get a shot in the next 10 games. at our current injury rate we are going to need them.