Moneyball

[PedroTheFisherman66]

Would you play in this league for a few more seasons if a league team came in for you

It depends who it was and how much money was on offer ? it could be he likes the club and the city, he likes the manager , he likes the owners and if they match the going rate he could possibly stay as he could see us getting promotion if not this season then next.

[Bushwacka]

We had the league-winning team last year that was broken up, with just one pro offer made

We must have a very inexperienced team this season as we seem to be losing to nigh-on everyone we play, including the FA Youth Cup qualifying tie against Aylestone Park - whoever they are.

Don't want to belittle what the under 18s did, but at the time a few fans got a bit carried away with what they had actually achieved. I think most of them were a year older than the teams they were playing against and it's a long way off the Premier League academies.

At the same time, Aylestone Park is, I believe, the Christian Fuchs academy. Don't know who's funding it, but it's not some two-bob local amateur youth team.

[nw6pie]

Don't want to belittle what the under 18s did, but at the time a few fans got a bit carried away with what they had actually achieved. I think most of them were a year older than the teams they were playing against and it's a long way off the Premier League academies.

At the same time, Aylestone Park is, I believe, the Christian Fuchs academy. Don't know who's funding it, but it's not some two-bob local amateur youth team.

That's interesting re Aylestone, thanks, didn't know about the Fuchs link:

https://www.aylestoneparkfc.org.uk/t...Soccer-Academy

[i961pie]

For twenty years prior to the current owners we had too many players that would fit into your category one. There are plenty that were on their way down and were has been's and looking for a last pay day or Notts being the retirement home. Likewise we also had our fair share of 'never going to be's' as well. Ultimately over a period of time and with such a vast quantity of player and manager turnover it resulted in us finding ourselves in the National League. It was no formula for success as was proven to lead to failure.

The day's of us having youth players that come through our system to which we can sell on for a profit are becoming more and more scarce with every passing season. Add to that we are currently a tier five club and there are many clubs in our region two or three levels above us with academies such as Derby, Forest and Leicester that will hoover up any talent around here.

Our youth players in recent times have either been so good that they have been snapped up before they can establish themselves in our team, or not been good enough and have been released. The football world is different to when we had the likes of Tommy Johnson and Mark Draper come through and the club is in a different place so it makes it hard for clubs like ours to grow players of such quality and keep them. Plus we are not a tier 1 or tier 2 club either like we were back in the early 90's.

So clubs like ours have to adapt to survive and I would much prefer us to have players in your option 3. However I do think you do need some experience players in the team to provide a balance. So where talent is hoovered up all around the country by premier league and championship club academies it makes sense to turn to those academies to look for players who get released who have had a good footballing education as an option as a foundation on which to build.

Another avenue is cherry picking the best non-league players. There are some good players in non-league and clubs like Peterborough have had a reputation going back many years of picking up talent from this league and below and developing them where they have become first team players and then they've sold them to bigger clubs. Our own league and the league below can be a good pool to scout as being the biggest club in non-league we can be an attractive prospect.

I'd much prefer Notts to get players from your category 3 rather than 1 or pay the expense of 2 if it means the club can be as self sustainable as possible going forward. It might take longer and require fans patience but it's worth giving it a go.

We did let Colby Bishop slip through our fingers and he is now plying his trade 2 leagues higher. Curtis Thompson is also playing in div. 1. On a different note we didn't rate Verdain Oliver when we had him on loan but he scored 17 goals last season and has about 6 already this in the same league.

[Mapperleypie]

That's interesting re Aylestone, thanks, didn't know about the Fuchs link:

https://www.aylestoneparkfc.org.uk/t...Soccer-Academy

Perhaps the defeat was not quite as abysmal a result as it appears at first glance.

[jacobncfc]

We did let Colby Bishop slip through our fingers and he is now plying his trade 2 leagues higher. Curtis Thompson is also playing in div. 1. On a different note we didn't rate Verdain Oliver when we had him on loan but he scored 17 goals last season and has about 6 already this in the same league.

Thompson was a joke, but I don’t think we can really look back on Bishop as one who got away. It was only in his fifth season of Conference North football after leaving Notts that he started to emerge as a regular goalscorer, having been let go by Boston as well. Some players just develop later - I doubt he’d be the player he is now if we’d have kept him at Notts.

[Freeman25]

Thompson was a joke, but I don’t think we can really look back on Bishop as one who got away. It was only in his fifth season of Conference North football after leaving Notts that he started to emerge as a regular goalscorer, having been let go by Boston as well. Some players just develop later - I doubt he’d be the player he is now if we’d have kept him at Notts.

Exactly. There's no way Bishop gets to the level he is now if he's a bit part player, looking out of his depth whenever he makes a cameo appearance staying at Notts compared to dropping down and playing football.

As for Vadaine Oliver, he was utter tripe at Notts, much like Chris O'Grady, Tahvon Campbell and Jake Jervis who all went on to improve after their spell with us, sometimes you get players too soon in their development but at our level it's not like you can do what Chelsea do and loan them out for 8 years to see if they'll ever be good enough. On that note, does anyone think Kevin De Bruyne and Mohamed Salah would have ever gotten to the levels they've achieved if Chelsea had hung on to them and given them a few appearances a season? Hindsight is great but so if the Butterfly effect.

[jackal2]

We did let Colby Bishop slip through our fingers and he is now plying his trade 2 leagues higher. Curtis Thompson is also playing in div. 1.

I gnash my teeth every time I think about this. It's fair to say that our rebuilt academy isn't yet producing as many nuggets as our original academy did before it was junked (thank you Geoff Moore and Gary Mills!), but there have still been some talents emerging in recent years and they should never have been allowed to wander away for nothing.

Whether you call it Moneyball or whatever, I don't think there's anything wrong with creating a team from our own best youth products, combined with some overlooked talents released by other clubs, mixed with a few experienced players. We also clearly do have data on players from leagues below, hence the signing of Callum Roberts and Lewis Knight, so a mixture of all these sources may well be the best way forward, whether it ultimately makes us money in sell-on fees or gets us promoted. Ideally both!